Can Minerals Lower Biological Age?

Nick Urban [00:00:01]:
You’re listening to High Performance Longevity, the show exploring a better path to optimal health for those daring to live as an outlier in a world of averages. I’m your host, Nick Urban, bioharmonizer, performance coach, and lifelong student of both modern science and ancestral wisdom. Each week, we decode the tools, tactics, and timeless principles to help you optimize your mind, body, and performance. Performance span, things you won’t find on Google or in your AI tool of choice. From cutting-edge biohacks to grounded lifestyle practices, you’ll walk away with actionable insights to look, feel, and perform at your best across all of life’s domains. The last time you saw your doctor for something, you might have walked out with a prescription for that one symptom. And nobody asked what was driving it. My guest today has spent about 50 years arguing that this is backwards and that the real fix is usually deeper, cheaper, and sitting one layer underneath.

Nick Urban [00:01:13]:
Dr. Carolyn Dean is a physician and a naturopath who’s written more than 30 books, including several we’ll be discussing here today. Today, we’re going past the symptoms and into the terrain. Drugs, sugar, hormones, gut infections, minerals, longevity. Dr. Dean, welcome back.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:01:31]:
Oh, thank you, Nick. And of course, call me Carolyn. We’ve done this 4 times already, so we’re, we’re good friends now.

Nick Urban [00:01:40]:
Yes. You have the, the plaque that’ll be coming in the mail shortly of the most appearances on High Performance Longevity.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:01:46]:
Wow. Awesome.

Nick Urban [00:01:49]:
So, since we’ve already recorded a bunch, we could easily do another podcast on magnesium. That’s one of both of our favorite topics, and I want to, but at the same time, there’s a lot of other stuff for us to cover. You have a new book, you have a radio show, and 50 years of pattern recognition. What are you most excited about right now?

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:02:11]:
I guess it’s my longevity study. And there you are on your longevity podcast, way ahead of the game. And It’s a study we did in Maui. So if you’d like to talk about that first. I mean, there’s also my organic farm stores. I have 2 of them in Maui now because food is so crucial, but it is not healing us. And all my, not all my, but my handful of dietary supplements that are so well absorbed. But in a climate where people are pulling away from dietary supplements, you see the divide.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:02:51]:
Podcasters, researchers, they’re all trotting out, well, it’s diet, it’s sunshine, it’s exercise, it’s your sleep, or injectable peptides. They have come to some sort of realization that the more synthetic supplements you use, the less healthy you are. So we’re in the middle of this mix. Where would you like to start?

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:03:41]:
Absolutely. Yes. And Well, that speaks for even doing cold plunges or hot saunas. You lose minerals. And if you don’t replace them, then the body actually weakens. And with peptides, they’re an injectable form because it’s only giving a real immediate signal to create some sort of action. That’s why you have to keep taking them. But what they do is they’ll push a pathway that needs vitamins and minerals as cofactors to create that activity.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:04:21]:
So you’re perfectly, totally right. The cells need to be kept supplied with nutrients at all times.

Nick Urban [00:04:30]:
It’s a controversial statement that you made a minute ago that the food supply, just having a clean, pristine diet, meaning that I go to the store, I grab organic produce, and meat depending on my diet. And that’s no longer enough. Why is it no longer enough?

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:04:47]:
I think the big ag, the food industry, refined foods, it’s been captured. It’s been captured by people who are just trying to make money off ag and food. I tell people all the time, try to make an organic farmer your best friend. So you know exactly where your food is coming from. Because even if you look at the organic standards, I mean, there’s some wording that says, well, if it’s 80% organic, we can label it organic. And the fact that there’s drift when you have genetically engineered crops, there’s some sort of drift that can occur onto organic crops and make them unorganic. So we have to get closer to our farmer or grow things ourselves, which, you know, some of that is opening up right now. But I know with my farm here, I focus a lot of what I do in my dietary supplement company.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:05:55]:
I put the finances into 76 acres of certified organic farm, 2 farm stores.

Nick Urban [00:06:02]:
Wow.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:06:03]:
And it’s gonna save the lives of a lot of people. To be able to eat good food that they can trust.

Nick Urban [00:06:11]:
Yeah. And even that, like you were saying, with the drift and other factors, even then it’s still like not as pristine as we would hope it would be. I think when people look and they see the organic stamp on things, they figure this is the cleanest, pristine food you can get, and it’s devoid of everything it shouldn’t have and it contains everything it should have. Unfortunately, as you mentioned, that’s not always the case. But, at the same time, it’s not a reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you don’t know your local farmer, at the very least, going organic is still better than going conventional for a number of reasons.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:06:44]:
Very.

Nick Urban [00:06:46]:
Alright. Well, tell us about your longevity study.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:06:50]:
Well, like you said, I’ve been at this for 50 years. My first year of practice was 1979. And, even at that, I went into med school, knowing about diet and exercise, and people wouldn’t listen to me. So I said, well, I’ll just become a doctor and you’ll have to listen to me. And I seriously thought that within 10 years, all doctors would be naturopaths as well. I did my naturopathic training after medicine. So I started practice as a naturopath in the Canadian system under socialized medicine. So people were covered.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:07:32]:
And I did not find I had to use drugs hardly at all. If my patients had to have surgery, I would go in on the surgery with them, and I saved organs because some… oh well, she doesn’t need this ovary or this appendix or… seriously.

Nick Urban [00:07:49]:
Wow.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:07:50]:
So I had a great time in practice, but the walls just kept closing in and in where the Big Pharma decided that, well, we’re going to be in charge of healthcare, and it became disease care. And the drug industry took over, and they financed medical schools and the media. And we lost a lot. And now, we have socialized medicine in Canada, and now in America, it’s corporations running the doctor’s offices. There are few independent doctors. If they are independent, they’re off insurance. So people can’t afford the medicine that will help them. And the whole dietary supplement industry has been captured.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:08:48]:
100 of the vitamin companies that I grew up with, vitamin and mineral companies, 100 of them have now been bought out by Nestlé and Clorox and all the different drug companies. There are lists you can Google to get that information. So, what happens when a big corporation that’s on the stock market buys out dietary supplement companies? They look for cheaper ingredients. They cut corners. And we all suffer because now, as I alluded to, most dietary supplements are synthetic. In the mineral world, they’re all compounds. And what I’ve managed to do because of my severe magnesium deficiency and then the laxative effect I get with any magnesium compound, I found a chemist who makes stabilized mineral ions, which are the picometer size that’s necessary for proper cell absorption. So it was all about absorption all along.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:10:03]:
I’ve been around long enough before there were health food stores in my city where I took my medical degree. And then, when I moved to Toronto from Halifax, I did my medicine in Halifax, Nova Scotia, moved to Toronto for my internship. And, there was one health food store and they were selling food-based vitamins. That’s how it began. And then, people said, well, biochemistry and all, we can make them synthetic. And, when the synthetics came along, you had to take more and more orally to get an effect because the synthetics had to hammer into the cells. They had to push their way in. They weren’t invited in.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:10:52]:
And then I noticed in my various naturopathic lectures over the years with Jeffrey Bland and who else? Well, Jonathan Wright was around at the time. They would say, well, now we have to use intramuscular injections of the vitamins and, oh, now we have to go to intravenous. And that meant that the body just wasn’t accepting them and they had to be forced in. But I always stayed with the notion that we had to have low potency, natural, so that the body would absorb them. So that’s, I don’t know, that’s sort of the grounding of where I come from. I’m sorry, I keep hitting my microphone. I’m not used to it.

Nick Urban [00:11:41]:
Well, that’s an important foundation to establish because, I mean, that exists and persists to this day. There’s a lot of supplements that just advertise how massive of a dose they have of particular ingredients. And like everything therapeutic, there can be a time and a place for megadoses of this and that. It could save a life. At the same time, for ongoing preventative health where we all want to be, We don’t want to be forcing the body to do things and to compensate in ways that we don’t want that to happen. And, why is it that the body’s able to effectively use low potency so effectively? And, what is the difference between forcing and gently knocking on the body’s doors as you were describing?

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:12:28]:
Right. I mean, that’s basic common sense to someone who just realizes or even just sees some data about hormone levels in the body, they’re in nanograms, picograms.

Nick Urban [00:12:47]:
Yeah.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:12:48]:
They’re so tiny. But what do we give for hormone replacement for women? It’s in the milligrams amounts. So, It’s a forced amount to create a reaction. And that’s very drug-based, very warrior-like. We’ve got the armamentarium and we’re going to use it. So it’s what Big Pharma and big medicine is geared toward. They just have never been trained. We were never trained in medical school to know about the cofactors, the vitamins and minerals.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:13:33]:
My school was a bit different. I was already interested in… I’d read all the 5 or 10 books in natural medicine, Adele Davis and Pavel Arora back in the day. And our Dean of Medicine was a biochemist, so we had 200 hours of biochemistry. And he would throw up or someone would throw up The Krebs cycle, for example.

Nick Urban [00:13:58]:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:13:59]:
In the Krebs cycle and the cycle just before that called the glycolysis cycle that takes food, makes it into pyruvate that goes into the Krebs cycle. Well, the glycolysis cycle needs magnesium in 6 of the 8 steps, and I just perked up. And then in the Krebs cycle, magnesium is the end atom that attaches to ATP, the energy molecule. So the magnesium-ATP is what energy truly is. If you don’t have enough magnesium, then you don’t have energy. And let me just flip to something we probably haven’t talked about this in past. When I was writing my mental health book, I found the information that the brain has 86 billion neurons. That’s just a brain cell.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:15:01]:
In each brain neuron, there could be up to 2 million mitochondria.

Nick Urban [00:15:08]:
Yeah.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:15:09]:
2 million. And up to that time, I knew the heart had the most mitochondria where energy is made and necessary. The heart only has 5,000 Mitochondria in each heart muscle cell. So, in the brain, if we don’t have the Mg to attach to the ATP, we don’t have brain energy. So, is magnesium deficiency a cause of dementia and all the brain diseases we’re seeing? It really begs the question. And, I don’t… Yeah. I mean, there’s been research that kind of shows that, but it’s never going to reach a pharmaceutical level because you can’t patent magnesium.

Nick Urban [00:15:59]:
But, what if you were to modify magnesium in some way or another? Because a lot of times, the companies, even with certain peptides, they’ll modify the peptide in a way and then they can declare it a novel art or whatever it’s called and then get a patent for it. Do you think that they will be developing their own proprietary magnesium types?

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:16:18]:
I’m sure. I’ve seen that with the copper peptides. They attach copper to something to give it some sort of absorption preference. But, I just say take my zinc and copper, which are both picometer size, they jump into the cells. When we had the COVID years, What was working in COVID was people who took zinc.

Nick Urban [00:16:47]:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:16:48]:
And what got the zinc into the cells were the ionophores, which are hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin. The, the way those 2 drugs work is by opening up the cell mineral ion channels and pulling in zinc.

Nick Urban [00:17:09]:
Wow.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:17:10]:
And it just struck me as so amazing. So yeah, a lot of the… they’ll try to patent these things and it just makes it so expensive for people when there are these other ways of getting these stabilized mineral ions, which you can’t get anywhere else in the world. And I’m just sitting back and kind of hiding out because The FDA won’t let doctors say anything about their dietary supplements curing disease.

Nick Urban [00:17:45]:
Yeah.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:17:45]:
That’s why you asked me about the longevity study. That’s why I moved to the longevity study because I’ve said over the years, look, if people can take food-based nutrients, let’s just give a bunch of people the nutrients and follow how they how they feel. So my chief of operations and I talked to our medical research director who helped us set up a study at Purdue in 2020 where we proved in humans the high absorption of our ReMag magnesium. And we said, well, look, we have hundreds of thousands of customers. Can we do a survey to show that they’re they’re healthier than the general population. He said, no, you can’t do that. You know? Yeah. And, I get so frustrated.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:18:38]:
And then, he started talking about, well, you know, I’m doing this study with a dietary supplement company and we’re using this epigenetic methylation receptor site blood testing.

Nick Urban [00:18:52]:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:18:52]:
And, doing before and after to see how it can slow aging.

Nick Urban [00:19:00]:
Yeah.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:19:00]:
And, I just perked right up. And, I said to Jenny afterward, we can do that study. That’s an easy study. So, I got one of my staff to come over and live here for a beautiful year. And, we took 10 people in the circle of my farmer’s market and a wellness lecture that I used to do. And, we put them on 7 of my formulas for 6 months. We did before testing. It’s just a finger prick test.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:19:37]:
You put it, drip the blood on a piece of cardboard. The lab name is Tru, T-R-U Diagnostic, one word.

Nick Urban [00:19:46]:
Yup.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:19:46]:
And so, for 6 months, they got these 7 formulas and everybody was pretty compliant except Nick. except a couple of practitioners on the study. And they thought, well, I got to do this other cleanse. And I… so anyway, it turned out at the end of it all, 7 of the 10 people, excluding the practitioners, slowed their aging and pace of aging on an average of 4 years.

Nick Urban [00:20:16]:
Wow.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:20:17]:
6 months, 4 years. And, at the same time, you can look up the Centrum Silver study. It’s called COSMOS. They followed 2… was it 1,000 people for 2 years? And there, they published their oligog about slowing aging in that population average of 4 months.

Nick Urban [00:20:45]:
Yeah.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:20:46]:
So we’ve got, I mean, we’ve got the answer to the healthcare crisis. You put people on this, they get happy, they get healthy, they don’t get sick, they slow their aging, they lose weight. All these parameters, we weren’t really looking at it because it was just myself and Julie doing this study. We did a symptom questionnaire and their symptoms just dropped off. Even the ones who didn’t slow their aging because what one woman had acute glaucoma and a horrible relationship breakup. So her stress was high. Someone else, they had to… and she was a health practitioner. She had to travel to the mainland 3 times to be with her dying mother.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:21:36]:
Major stress. And the other practitioner, he did some sort of intestinal detox and ended up in the hospital. But what we saw is, yeah, major stress, it will kind of slow the… they’ll shut the body’s metabolism down so that your body just, it can’t slow aging if you’re having that much stress. But, To me, it’s like a proof of concept study. It’s a pilot. I know it’s a small study, but it just gave me a lot of, you know, heartfelt happiness to know that what I’ve been doing and what I’ve created with these formulas is really truly helping people.

Nick Urban [00:22:27]:
Yeah. Well, I mean, I think it’s no exaggeration to say that you’re the reason that magnesium became popular in the US at least.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:22:36]:
Absolutely.

Nick Urban [00:22:37]:
And there’s a lot of understanding around magnesium now, much more than ever before. And when I read your book, Magnesium Miracle, however many years ago that was at this point, I was shocked how many different symptoms and conditions just arise from one mineral deficiency. And so each of those different things could be medicated And the actual root cause would never have been addressed and it could get worse and worse over time. Or you could go all the way upstream and you could fix the deficiency and all the symptoms and perhaps other things I didn’t even realize were symptoms, like say poor sleep or low energy. Those could all be improved simultaneously. So if you imagine like a, a bucket and it has a bunch of holes in it, you might know where some of those holes are already. You might not see some of the other ones. But, if you just patch up the whole bucket by taking the foundational nutrients like you have in your formulas, it’s not at all surprising to me that you’d see a biological age improvement of multiple years.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:23:38]:
And, that was just 6 months. We couldn’t believe it. It was amazing. So, what we’re trying to do with health and in the health and wellness community, we’re trying to give people hope so that they They don’t feel that they’re aging to the point of how we used to think about it, lying in bed with tubes coming out of every orifice. Because we can maintain life. We can put people on all kinds of apparatus and extend their life. But what we want is to be… here’s what my dad used to say. He told me it was a Boy Scout motto.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:24:25]:
Happy, healthy, holy, wealthy, and wise. Because when you’re happy, then you won’t put up with stuff. When you’re happy, healthy… healthy, gosh, can you imagine people who are just struggling through life? And anyway, happy, healthy, holy. Yes, there is a spiritual nature to humans. There’s so much more to our world than we think in our little 3D-ness. There’s so much. Happy, healthy, holy, wealthy. If you’re healthy and you have the energy to work, you’ll get wealthy.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:25:04]:
And wise. I think wisdom, it’s common sense. My mom was a nurse and she just had huge common sense, and I learned a lot from her. And that’s what I’ve been doing throughout my my world. I have a podcast on Mondays. I’ll take about half a dozen studies that are out in the world and I’ll critique the heck out of them because most of what’s passing for research is…

Nick Urban [00:25:35]:
Yeah.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:25:36]:
It’s just people who have a research job. And actually, I got into my next book. I didn’t tell you about this one. It’s called them the tarnished gold standard of nutrition research. I started writing that and I finished it. It’s being formatted now during the study because I realized that they want… the research industry wants you to study one nutrient at a time. And they, I mean, even in One of my studies, they turned the research over to, like, a clerk. They… the head researcher will put it down the line until some graduate student is doing your study who you’ve never met, doesn’t know you.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:26:30]:
So there’s all kinds of things in choosing the people for a study. But the worst of it in nutrition research is they only want to study one thing. Now, if they study vitamin D and don’t realize that you need magnesium in order to activate the vitamin D, well, what’s the endpoint of the study even meaning? Because if 3/4 of the population, which is the magnesium-deficient population, if they don’t have enough magnesium to activate their vitamin D, then the vitamin D isn’t going to work. And, the study says, Oh, vitamin D doesn’t work. Same thing with omega-3 fatty acids. They need the B vitamins. I mean, they all interact and work together. And, that’s why in my formulas, I basically tell people, okay, you need your vitamin C definitely.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:27:29]:
You need high-dose C too.

Nick Urban [00:27:31]:
Yeah.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:27:32]:
Because what’s happened with vitamin C Well, it’s not what’s happened. It’s what happened a long time ago, Nick. In the Garden of Eden, when Eve ate that apple and she did it against God’s direction, she condemned us to not being able to make our own vitamin C. We do not have one of the 3 enzymes that makes vitamin C, which most of the animal kingdom has. Little mice running around in the lab. You do something to them, they make vitamin C. What’s the endpoint of that study? So in humans our size, we should be making, according to our dear friend, Dr. Linus Pauling, we should be making 5,000 to 10,000 milligrams a day.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:28:29]:
And the RDA is 90 milligrams. 9-0. So we’re at a complete disadvantage. Linus Pauling and, yeah, a guy that came and worked with him from Germany, I’m sorry, Matthias Rath, they said, okay, you need vitamin C to make collagen. Collagen makes your arteries healthy. Collagen is 30% of the protein in your body, all your tendons, ligaments, all the stuff. So if you don’t have good collagen in your arteries, there, there could be little tears, especially at what we call a bifurcation. They’ll just stretch and tear a little bit.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:29:16]:
What happens then? Cholesterol comes along and dabs a bit onto the tear as a Band-Aid. And then if you’re magnesium deficient, you have relatively more calcium. And calcium precipitates in the cholesterol. There’s your atherosclerosis. So what’s the treatment? Magnesium, vitamin C, and then there’s a new product that I have to bring out, proline and lysine, that goes with our ascorbic acid powder. I made an ascorbic acid powder out of berry powder to mask the taste of all my strong-tasting minerals.

Nick Urban [00:29:58]:
Interesting.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:29:59]:
But, that vitamin C, you need a couple scoops a day to increase your vitamin C ascorbic acid levels. And then, the lysine proline, there’s something that happens in the Lp community. With cholesterol now, they’ve all realized, yeah, LDL isn’t the problem. Okay, we blew it. The statins didn’t work, but there’s still people pushing statins. It’s crazy.

Nick Urban [00:30:32]:
Yeah.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:30:33]:
But now they’re blaming Lp. Oh, if you have Lp, you’re in trouble. Yeah, we don’t have drugs for it yet, but there are 4 drugs in the pipeline. Let’s go for it. Well, the first drug in the pipeline didn’t work, so I don’t know what they’re going to do. But the whole Lp, it can It’s hard to describe, but it takes over the wound healing of vitamin C. So it’s actually trying to help that little tear heal, but at the same time, it’ll build up. And it’ll build up in people who don’t have enough lysine.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:31:16]:
And the proline comes in because…

Nick Urban [00:31:18]:
Proline.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:31:18]:
proline is necessary to make collagen. It’s all in my latest book is on vitamin C. And, it’s just fascinating. And, there’s a lot of heart disease in the world right now. So, that’s where I said I’ve really got to do this vitamin C book.

Nick Urban [00:31:41]:
Yeah, that’s great. And, I can’t believe that the RDA for vitamin C is 90 milligrams for men. It’s only 75 milligrams for women. When I… before I read Linus Pauling’s books, I thought it was all just his conjecture. I thought like his ideas behind high dose.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:31:57]:
Mm-hmm.

Nick Urban [00:31:58]:
But in his books, he profiles a ton of different case studies of other doctors giving their patients high-dose vitamin C in different forms for different conditions. And it’s striking the outcome differences between those with And without, and it’s a huge difference in the dosage. I think the 90 or 75 milligram dosage is enough to prevent scurvy, but not to do anything beyond that.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:32:23]:
Yeah. Yeah. It’s crazy. Um, people my age, I’m 77, people my age have bruising up and down their arms and bleeding gums. And I just say, you’ve got scurvy. I don’t tell them that, but they have scurvy, Nick. It’s terrible. And nobody’s talking about it because, again, doctors didn’t learn about vitamins and minerals in med school.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:32:51]:
So we’ve got a population that could be so much healthier if they took magnesium and vitamin C. Now, the thing about magnesium that I’m sure you want to talk about is that there’s so many magnesium compounds out there. And, the marketing of them is, well, yeah, there are 7 magnesium compounds. You better take this. We’re the best. But, what I talk about is needing magnesium ions. You want the Mg part of the magnesium chloride or the citrate or the threonate.

Nick Urban [00:33:29]:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:33:29]:
You don’t need that other. They market the heck out of it saying, well, you can benefit from… well, they used to say from the threonate in magnesium L-threonate. Well, the threonate is not threonine. Threonine helps the nervous system. Threonate is a derivative of vitamin C for Pete’s sakes.

Nick Urban [00:33:55]:
Yeah.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:33:55]:
So, And I don’t know if the threonate helps people who have vitamin C deficiency, but the point that I always try to make is you don’t need that compound. The body has to work to separate the compound. It’ll do it in a fluid. So it’ll do it in the bloodstream where it will dissociate in a liquid. And be separated for an infinitesimal amount of time. And in that infinitesimal amount of time, it can… that ion of magnesium can go into a cell. But what I was able to do, just by some miracle, I found a chemist who stabilized those ions. And we’ve done the university studies where in a bottle of my liquid ReMag, They can shine a laser through it and it doesn’t bounce off any substance because the magnesium is in a picometer size.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:35:01]:
So they did that test, I think, 3 times because they couldn’t believe it. Because you taste this stuff, it tastes like diesel oil. It’s so strong. But it has no substance. So, it’s back to having something that’s absorbed that your body likes and it can benefit from.

Nick Urban [00:35:24]:
Yeah. I think I believed this previously, so I’m sure other people out there do this or believe this also. When you take a supplement, any nutrient, you pop it in your mouth, you swallow it. I used to think that your body just absorbs it and then that’s that. But as I understand now, there is a lot more nuance to it, starting in the mouth with salivary enzymes and then going down into the gut. And you don’t get all of the nutrient through the gut depending on the state of your gut. And then by the time you get the nutrient into the cell, it can be a tiny fraction of what you originally had in the capsule or the liquid.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:36:03]:
Yeah.

Nick Urban [00:36:04]:
And a lot of times when you’re taking those magnesium compounds, The magnesium glycinate, magnesium taurate, magnesium threonate, there’s magnesium malate, there’s a ton of them. You’re not actually getting a whole bunch of that magnesium into the cell.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:36:18]:
Right, right. Just recently, actually, I asked, I think it was Super Grok, I said, have there been studies using an ionized magnesium blood test to show the absorption of magnesium ions from magnesium compounds. And, they came back with my study. And, I said, are there any other studies that have used ionized magnesium testing? This is a test that’s in emergency rooms and ICUs and it can be done. In our absorption study, we used ionized magnesium test. It’s obvious that we need to be using that. And, they said that our study was the only one. So, if you read that someone says, oh, this magnesium is higher absorbed than that one, they have not done a test to show that.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:37:22]:
It may be absorption, it may be into the blood. But it’s not into the cells. It’s not measuring the ions that can get into cells. So there’s a lot of tarnished gold nutrition research out there.

Nick Urban [00:37:40]:
A lot of times when we think about the benefits of certain supplements or nutrients, say magnesium, to continue on with this example, we’re often talking about, as I would assume, the benefits of that nutrient once it reaches the cells and the tissues, not necessarily what’s just in the bloodstream. Because if you go to a… and do your annual physical or any of the other services that are third-party services to test your blood, they’ll tell you what the serum blood biomarker is for a particular nutrient, maybe zinc, maybe magnesium or others. And usually those stay very steady, but then we’re not getting the full picture.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:38:17]:
Oh, man. No. Yeah. Serum magnesium, The range of serum magnesium is 1.7 to 2.2, I think, nanograms per deciliter. But just look at that, 1.7 to 2.2. That’s 0.5, a 0.5 range. That’s tiny. And what happened with serum magnesium, only 1% of the body’s magnesium is in the bloodstream.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:38:45]:
So they dip into your blood and take this out and they say, oh, Wow. It always is normal. It is so normal that doctors decided not to measure magnesium on an electrolyte panel. People don’t believe me until they go to their blood tests and there’s no magnesium. There’s sodium and chloride and potassium. There’s no magnesium. And, it makes no sense. I mean, you talked about all the The magnesium deficiency diseases.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:39:18]:
In the latest magnesium book, Missing Link to Total Health, I have 68 magnesium deficiency conditions that can be misdiagnosed as diseases. And, we’re not measuring magnesium properly. It’s criminal. So, we’ve got these blood tests. In general, I cannot. That’s why before the epigenetic methylation test, which let me just sidebar there, there are millions of methylation sites in the body where a methyl group, which is just a carbon and a hydrogen 3, CH3, millions of sites where that methyl group goes in and creates an action. It does stuff with RNA and DNA, everything from head to foot, this little group. And, that’s why another sidebar of my sidebar, that’s where the MTFRH, is that it? Did I say that?

Nick Urban [00:40:25]:
MTHFR.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:40:27]:
MTHFR. That’s a methylation abnormality in your genetic code. 40% of people have MTHFR. abnormalities. So what I did when I made my Realign B complex, I made it food-based and methylated so that low potency Bs, nothing synthetic, just, you know, a few milligrams, because in the body we measure picograms, picometer, picograms, tiny amounts that the body needs. You do not have to hammer it. So, we’ve got these blood tests that aren’t testing function, they’re just testing a level in a sick population. So, what the labs do is they’ll run a bell curve on their customers.

Nick Urban [00:41:29]:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:41:30]:
And they’ll look at the range of our sick population and say, well, this is the middle of the range. That’s probably optimum. It’s not. It’s a sick population. The blood test that people can get sometimes is RBC magnesium. Yeah, an RBC magnesium test. And it can give you a better range. And I just tell people, be at the highest level for Pete’s sakes.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:42:02]:
Do not accept that the doctor kind of peeks at your results and looks at the red flags and sees no red flags and says, oh, you’re fine.

Nick Urban [00:42:14]:
Yeah.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:42:15]:
Because you could have a level right, you know, 3.1 and the bottom is 3 and they’ll say you’re okay. There’s no one optimizing our blood tests. That’s why I hardly even bother with blood tests because I know everybody needs to have the basic vitamins and minerals. So I just have a little handful of them all. You just take them. And if you want to do blood tests, fine. I mean, this methylation test now, they’ve gotten a bit… popular True Diagnostic, they’re up to $800, $900 for a pair of tests.

Nick Urban [00:42:57]:
Yeah.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:42:58]:
A lot of the bio… the big biohackers that are on all the podcasts, they’re running their memberships and their blood testing and putting you on synthetic supplements and rah-rah. And they’re helping people. I mean, the minute you step away from refined foods and Medications, you’re going to be healthier. So they are helping people, but, you know, I want a little bit more.

Nick Urban [00:43:26]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of times it’s health improvements via subtraction. Like you just remove some of these, a bad toxic environment, you remove the refined foods and really like you have the mindset that I’m going to go forward and I’m going to improve. all those together, like all else equal, can make a huge difference regardless of the other things going on. Perhaps some of the things are having a detrimental impact, but the overall net effect of the program might still be positive.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:43:55]:
You’ve…

Nick Urban [00:43:55]:
we’ve mentioned red blood cell magnesium as one of the blood tests that people can get, and some of the more advanced, more modern tests actually use that. They’ll have that included in one of their labs. Are there others? I think I’ve seen red blood cell zinc perhaps, but that seems much more rare. And I don’t think there’s like red blood cell copper or any of the others really. Like, we don’t know vitamin C intake really, unless I guess you were to go to like some kind of other form of testing, like, I guess like proteomics or metabolomics or something.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:44:28]:
Yeah. I stayed away from that to such an extent that I’m not up on what’s being used now. But, I think when they average test scores and put people on a bell curve, they are never going to be able to tell you what’s optimal. I would say that if I had a group of 100 people on my products for 2 years, we did before and after blood testing, Then, we could start to see what’s optimal. I know in my customers, they’ll say, oh, my B vitamins now, they’re higher, or my minerals are testing higher. So, I know that that is going on. But yeah, you see the dilemma…

Nick Urban [00:45:23]:
Yeah.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:45:24]:
Trying to match a blood test to someone What do you do? That’s why the aging factor in the study we did, I find it so helpful. And, it matches the symptomatology shift where… and people saying, oh, I feel so hopeful now that I can get back my energy and my sleep and my this and that. And then, that hope is a driver.

Nick Urban [00:45:55]:
Yeah.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:45:56]:
I mean, the placebo effect is positive thinking and being hopeful. You take something and you hope it works. Oh, and your body says, oh, she’s trying to help me. I think I can kick in. Yeah.

Nick Urban [00:46:13]:
So far, we’ve talked a lot about deficiency. Some people have the opposite issue of excess. They’ll have, say, too much iron in their body. And, I don’t think that your products contain iron, maybe they do. But, if someone has already too much of a mineral. You don’t want to have too much, and that’s probably rare, but how do you make sure that someone isn’t taking, say, ReMite, the multimineral, and they’re not going to get too much that’s going to push them into other symptoms related to excess levels of something?

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:46:44]:
Right. Being aware of that. I don’t have any iron in any of my products. So, the body has this incredible I don’t know if it’s a feedback system. It’s a loop system where it pulls all the iron back out of the intestines or wherever it ends up. So yeah, I, I’m very aware of excess iron. In terms of the multiple minerals, when you look at my Remite bottle, I have 12 minerals and it’s very low potency. minerals.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:47:23]:
Just so… I’ve had customers over the years saying, yeah, I took your ReMite to my doctor and he said, wow, there’s nothing in there. But because it’s a stabilized ion minerals, then it does get absorbed in the body. The body utilizes what it needs. And what’s beautiful about ReMite is 9 of the minerals make thyroid hormones. They just, they just make thyroid hormones. We used to, oh, you need iodine. And then people started taking these high dose iodine and causing all kinds of problems in terms of people thought, oh, I’m allergic to iodine. When I take it now, I get this and that.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:48:04]:
So yeah, the high dose of anything is not good except magnesium. Let me, let me jump over to magnesium. When I got the laxative effect with more than 50 milligrams of magnesium, it took me years. You know, I was lying in Epsom salt baths and getting my skin all irritated with magnesium chloride. What is it they called it? It was a liquid. You would put magnesium chloride in distilled water and make this solution and just slather your body with it. Just to get rid of heart palpitations and all my magnesium deficiency symptoms. But when I put out ReMag, I was able to take 1,200 milligrams.

Nick Urban [00:48:53]:
Whoa.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:48:54]:
My body needed it, was absorbing it from your, you know, from, you were talking about absorption in the intestines. Well, with a stabilized mineral ion, you start absorbing in your mouth. So it absorbed so much and I needed so much, it never got to my intestines. So that’s, that’s what you’re looking at with needing high potency. And I try to, to recommend to people, well, just slowly take your Remag until you get to like 450, 600 milligrams. That’s 2 teaspoons and see how you feel. If you’re taking it through the day, you won’t overload your cells and you won’t get the laxative effect.

Nick Urban [00:49:44]:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:49:44]:
I don’t tell people to take the 4 teaspoons that I took. It might just take them longer to get rid of certain magnesium deficiency symptoms. With the other minerals, back to thyroid, you need the iodine, but then there… and it’s not It’s not like a train where you add the minerals at each stop.

Nick Urban [00:50:08]:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:50:09]:
You know, the, the process of making your, your thyroid hormones is very interactive, but you need selenium as well. There’s a… there were a lot of people saying, yeah, yeah, you need iodine and selenium, but then it goes on to you need, you need copper and zinc and chromium and manganese and molybdenum. You need 9 minerals. And personally, when, when I was 6 weeks into taking my Remite, I, my hands got warm and I was even more hyperactive than usual. So I stopped my Armour Thyroid 60 milligrams and…

Nick Urban [00:50:50]:
Oh.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:50:51]:
Yeah, I just stopped it cold turkey. And, but I tell people to, to wean off their medications. Yeah.

Nick Urban [00:50:58]:
‘Cause Re:Mite is, it has a bunch of different minerals in it, and these are foundational for so many different things. You even have a little bit of magnesium in here, but like across the body’s full functionality, like you need the base layer. And I think the minerals probably are the biggest base layer because they’re required cofactors for a lot of different processes that go on in the body. Vitamins don’t work as well without minerals, et cetera, et cetera. So, I found it interesting. How do you explain to people who say, okay, I took it to my doctor and my doctor said there’s pretty much nothing in here. Why is that low potency important? How does it actually work? Like, why would you want low potency?

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:51:40]:
Well, we don’t need high potency with the stabilized mineral ions because we haven’t done the research on it, but I would say it’s 99% absorbed. Whereas when you look at other minerals and you, they’ll say maybe 10 to 40% absorbed. And I don’t even know what criteria they’re using. So it’s low potency because it doesn’t have to be high potency because it’s so well absorbed. And then people start noticing the benefits very clearly. So it keeps people on, on the products.

Nick Urban [00:52:18]:
Yeah.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:52:18]:
In my store, my online store, I have like 75, 80% return customers. This is not a marketing system where I spend a million dollars getting people to buy one bottle and keep having to spend more money to get that one bottle sold. Everybody who writes testimonials says, I’m in it for life because we are not getting the nutrients from our food anymore. That was one of the main reasons I started supporting this farm, is Ocoa Farm in… farms, plural, in Maui, is because I thought, yeah, you know, if I can get good food, I shouldn’t need as many nutrients. Well, I do.

Nick Urban [00:53:06]:
Yeah.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:53:06]:
And we do because of the stress, because of Wi-Fi, because of the toxins, because Our water supply is contaminated because the medications people take, the surgeries. We are under so much stress. And even in the athletic world, we put ourselves under that stress. Athletes just sweating buckets and not replacing… they’re replacing what with drinks that are sodium and sugar? It’s incredible. In the military, I heard stories about the people in the military who would sweat all day, take off their t-shirts, hang them up. In the morning, they’d be hard as boards and they’d have to beat out the minerals.

Nick Urban [00:53:54]:
Wow.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:53:55]:
So these people are coming back or they’re in the forces sweating out their minerals, getting sick, getting PTSD, getting all the anxiety and all the symptoms. I have a story of someone who was telling me about this former military underwater bomb demolition expert. Great shape, you know, really doing well. But then, you know, a little conversation, he’s got polyneuropathies, he’s got Insomnia. He’s got muscle twitching, trying his best to eat well and, and take nutrients. She started giving him ReMag, and he said the first night he, he finally slept in 20 years.

Nick Urban [00:54:49]:
Wow.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:54:49]:
So there’s, there are situations with people who are really trying hard with their health, and they can have an immediate benefit. But then there are people, if you’re marketing to the general population, they are so sick, it’s gonna take a while for them to feel the benefits of the nutrients. And then in the athletic world, we spend a lot of time and money on making our dietary supplements NSF certified, sports certified.

Nick Urban [00:55:26]:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:55:26]:
Instead of taking our third-party lab testing that we do on all our batches, they had to start from scratch and then test for drugs as well.

Nick Urban [00:55:38]:
Wow.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:55:38]:
And, you know, it pays them a lot of money. So we’re sports certified now, which means athletic companies or whatever teams can use our vitamins and minerals. And we got to the point trying to educate them that the trainers and the athletes themselves, they cannot be bothered to measure the liquid into a teaspoon and put it in their drinking bottle. It is unbelievable how difficult it is to get people to take care of their health. I Listen to sports podcasts. I listen to all kinds of podcasts and I look at the, you know, the 20, 30, 100,000 people who are looking at these podcasts. And then my health podcast, you know, a few hundred people. I mean, I’m talking life and death and people don’t even seem to care.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:56:40]:
They will wait because of all the, I don’t know, the hoopla about… You know, the breakthroughs in medicine, they’ll wait, get sick, and think a few drugs are going to help them. And then they are, they are seriously disappointed.

Nick Urban [00:56:56]:
Yeah. That’s unfortunately part of human psychology that we want to think about something when it appears relevant. We don’t want to focus much on prevention because that’s energetically costly. We’d rather just deal with the issue as it arises, even though it’s much more costly to go that route. And it’s often not nearly as Yep. When people come to you and they’re like, I don’t even know where to begin right now, I’m taking nothing, or I’ve stopped taking everything. And I feel like I’m missing things in my diet. How do you direct them towards the right nutrients?

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:57:31]:
Well, actually I begin with the hydration. There you are drinking, I’m drinking. And what I tell people to do is Get some sort of filtered water. Try not to use plastic bottle water because the whole thing about plastics now, we do have to be concerned. And in each liter of filtered water, put a quarter teaspoon of a colorful sea salt. That can do a lot to start bringing very trace mineral amounts into your body, into your cells. People will say, oh, you know, I don’t, I don’t have such swollen ankles because the fluid that was dropping to their ankles is supposed to be in their cells. It won’t go in the cells unless you have minerals in your cells.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:58:28]:
So I start with sea salted water and then of course ReMag. ReMag, as you said earlier, Nick, people can go and listen to our earlier shows. I talk all about magnesium, but what we’ve found most lately is 600 to 800 biochemical processes in the body require magnesium. You can bring up anything to me, BDNF, the brain nutrient, whatever, whatever. You can bring up FADNAD, bring up anything and I’ll say, well, look at the enzymes that, that run that metabolism. Magnesium is necessary.

Nick Urban [00:59:10]:
Yeah.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:59:10]:
So what happens when people start taking, uh, starting with a quarter teaspoon of ReMag, which is 75 milligrams, put it in the drinking water that you drink throughout the day, increasing it to 1.5 to 2 teaspoons. When, when you’re sleeping better at night and when you have more energy during the day, you just start perking up. And most people will start saying, oh, okay, well, what else can I do? So that’s where we begin. It’s, it’s the gateway drug.

Nick Urban [00:59:41]:
Well, I’m actually surprised that you would put ReMag in front of ReMite because ReMite has a broader spectrum. If I was deficient in say copper or zinc or something, I would certainly notice that with ReMite, but I might not notice it with ReMag.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:59:56]:
Yeah, that is interesting actually. No one’s ever come from that side because, I mean, certainly it’s the second one and especially with athletes, that’s our electrolyte.

Nick Urban [01:00:12]:
Yeah.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:00:12]:
A lot of customers, they’ll say, yeah, I use this every day, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Well, I think If you added up all the enzymes that are motivated or stimulated, triggered by those 12 minerals, you would probably end up with 600 to 800 enzyme systems. So, thank you for that, Nick. I’ll go back to the drawing board.

Nick Urban [01:00:42]:
Well, I think magnesium is the one that everyone knows about this day and age. Copper and zinc and all the other ones, molybdenum and manganese and that kind of stuff, Way less attention. People don’t really care about those as much, so it might be a harder sell to get people to care about them to begin with.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:00:59]:
Yeah.

Nick Urban [01:00:59]:
If someone’s athletic, they sweat a lot, they sauna a lot, they probably are gonna be depleted in something. And maybe it’s magnesium, it’s probably magnesium, but it’s probably other things as well. So personally, whenever I travel, I always bring Re:Mite with me because that’s like my nutritional, like supplemental base that I want to make sure I have at least that covered.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:01:20]:
Yeah. Yeah. Good point. Because it does have some magnesium in there. So yeah. Excellent.

Nick Urban [01:01:27]:
You mentioned sea salt a minute ago, and I also agree that’s a really important thing to do in the morning to have a little pinch of it. Again, on the same line of thinking as the going into the doctors and they’ll tell you that, you know what, there’s like nothing in this. If you look at the actual breakdown of the minerals inside that salt, it’s like 1% of your daily value in say a pinch of whatever the salt is. How is it able to still have an effect?

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:01:56]:
I say it’s because the body so desperately needs the minerals, it will just grab it. And what I’ve noticed with people is, as I’ve already said, They’re, they’re basically healthy, eating a good diet. You give them something that they’re very deficient in, the body immediately goes to work. Often I’ll end a podcast, an interview, when people say, what’s your final… I say, go to your kitchen, open the cupboard. I’m sure you have a bottle of magnesium in there. Just start taking it. Because the body needs So much magnesium, and 75, 80% of us are deficient, that no matter how poorly absorbed, it’s going to help. You know the whole magnesium oxide story.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:02:54]:
It’s 4% absorbed, who knows where, maybe into the bloodstream.

Nick Urban [01:02:58]:
Yeah.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:02:58]:
But it’s very poorly absorbed. It’s a strong laxative. But the original studies, even brain studies, were done using magnesium oxide and they were all positive. So, for the magnesium L-threonate people to say, well, ours is the only magnesium that gets into the brain, that’s not true.

Nick Urban [01:03:20]:
Yeah. Yeah. I like that you bring that up. And I also think it’s helpful to remember that when you’re encountering those types of claims, there’s what we digest, which requires good gut health to digest effectively. There is then what we absorb, and then there’s what we absorb from the blood into into the cells, we assimilate into the cells. So, it’s not just as simple as like, oh, 80% of this gets into cells. It’s like, okay, well, you have to actually figure out how it’s getting through the body and how much is ending up where you want it to end up.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:03:52]:
Yeah.

Nick Urban [01:03:52]:
And, that’s why to me, it makes sense that if you’re focusing on actually getting beyond the blood into tissues and cells, that’s a good place to look. And, if you have a supplement delivery technology that can help there, It’s worth sharing.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:04:12]:
Awesome.

Nick Urban [01:04:12]:
Well, Carolyn, if people want to try RNA Reset products, we’ve already mentioned that they could start with either ReMag, your magnesium, or ReMight, your multi-mineral. Where do you want to send them for that? And I will also put a link to the study we discussed in the show notes for this.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:04:31]:
We don’t have it on my store site. The study is at drcarolynndeane.com. That’s where my podcasts and articles and blogs are. And the banner has the Maui Reset Study and it says, enter the study. So you click on that. The next page, you scroll down below the banner. It’s got the navigation bar. I tell people to go to the white paper first.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:04:55]:
We’ve got like a whole new website within drcarolyndeen.com. It’s 31 pages. It’s too much information. But there’s a lot of information we got out of this. I mean, Listen to this. I’ll be quick because I know we’re coming to the end. Your body will jump from glucose digestion to fat digestion only when you have enough B vitamins. So what… and we found this out in the study how people’s B vitamins improved and their diet, whatever their… ability to go to ketosis or produce ketones improved with their B vitamins.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:05:41]:
So what was happening in the first 2 years of my practice, everybody had hypoglycemia. They would get low blood sugar and just, oh my gosh, I’m going to faint. And, oh, eat some sugar. And I would be putting people on food-based B vitamins back then. And, oh, my people don’t have hypoglycemia. I didn’t know know at the time that it was the B vitamins that were allowing the body to be more preferential for digesting fat. So that’s, you know, your fat loss depends on B vitamins. It’s incredible the intricacy of the body.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:06:24]:
But anyway, drcarolyndeen.com. The study’s there. The products are at rnareset.com. And because of the study, the 7 The 7 products, we have it bundled. We have such, um, what is inexpensive nutrients. When you look at, I mean, Nick, look at urolithin A, how everybody wants urolithin A.

Nick Urban [01:06:50]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:06:51]:
Well, it only works for a couple of months and you need magnesium to make it work on and on. $99 for a, um, A month of urolithin A. Yeah. And, and it’s be… everybody’s talking about it. So, I mean, $99, that’s half, a little less than half the price of 7 of my products. So people really, really need the, these nutrients. And I don’t know what more to say. rnareset.com and drcarolyndeen.com.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:07:27]:
So there.

Nick Urban [01:07:28]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I think you and your team set up a code for my audience a while back. I believe it’s URBAN, maybe 10% off or something. So if you guys wanna give it a shot, throw that code in there and check out the products, specifically Remag and Remite. If you wanna get started, the B complex, if you are vegan, vegetarian, or you want extra support with energy or the whole longevity bundle, if you want to Potentially reverse your biological age by 4 years in 6 months on average. Well, Carolyn, thank you for joining me on the podcast. I realized as you were just speaking a minute ago, we never even got to cover some of the topics, meaning your recent books of Exposing Sugar Toxicity and Detoxing Your Body, both of those.

Nick Urban [01:08:17]:
So we will have another one. There they are. We’ll have another one on the books for once your third book or third upcoming book is out. And we will cover all of those in the next one.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:08:30]:
Look, the only book I let my picture be on the COVID It’s a recipe book. The Sugar-Free Kitchen.

Nick Urban [01:08:39]:
Awesome.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:08:41]:
Uh, yeah, I’m having a good time and I have a good time with you. I give you a virtual hug and hopefully my heart’s work. Yeah.

Nick Urban [01:08:52]:
Oh, nice.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:08:54]:
And beside me is a picture I took of a heliconia out in my garden.

Nick Urban [01:08:59]:
Wow.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:09:00]:
Yeah. Yeah. I live in paradise and I thank you so much, Nick, for what you do. I appreciate you.

Nick Urban [01:09:07]:
I appreciate you. Thank you for joining me yet again for another one. It’s been a blast. And thank you all for tuning in and sharing your time, your energy. And your attention with us today. Until next time, be an outlier. Thanks for tuning in to High Performance Longevity. If you got value today, the best way to support the show is to leave a review or share it with someone who’s ready to upgrade their healthspan.

Nick Urban [01:09:34]:
You can find all the episodes, show notes, and resources mentioned at outlier.com. Until next time, stay energized, stay bioharmonized, and be an outlier.