Why You Have Brittle Bones & Heart Issues: The Shocking Truth About Calcium, Omega-3s, Mag L-Threonate, Vitamin B & Other Supplements You Take

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:00:00]:
We think we have to have really strong drugs to make any difference in the brain.

Nick Urban [00:00:06]:
You’re listening to High Performance Longevity. The show exploring a better path to optimal health for those daring to live as an outlier in a world of averages. I’m your host, Nick Urban, bioharmonizer, performance coach, and lifelong student of both modern science and ancestral wisdom. Each week, we decode the tools, tactics, and timeless principles to help you optimize your mind, body and performance span things you won’t find on Google or in your AI tool of choice. From cutting edge biohacks to grounded lifestyle practices, you’ll walk away with actionable insights to look, feel, and perform at your best across all of life’s domains. Dr. Carolyn Dean, welcome back to the podcast. You are now a 3 Pete guest.

Nick Urban [00:01:00]:
I think you’re tied for number one, so it’s an honor to have you back here with me today.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:01:04]:
Oh, thank you, Nick. Yes. I’ve followed you all over the world.

Nick Urban [00:01:07]:
It turned out for people who don’t have any context, you, as I call it, are the queen of magnesium. But not just magnesium. You popularize magnesium, but also other minerals and foundational nutrients. Today, we’re going to be talking about your latest book, and we’re going to start off with the world of, as you called it, nutritional psychiatry and how these fundamental nutrients impact the brain and mind. Before we get started today, have you taken anything or done anything for your. Let’s just say mental health specifically? That’s unusual.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:01:48]:
I’ve been living through the smart drug revolution, I guess you could say. Remember when Life Extension, they were starting to talk about smart drugs and nootropics, And I saw that happening. But what I knew about drugs, chemical drugs, synthetic chemical drugs made in the lab with coal tartar. I knew the body would reject them. So whatever effects people get from smart drugs could be just a stimulation where the body is reacting against the drugs and incidentally, making it seem like the person is benefiting. And that makes me think of. When I talk to Mildred Zelig, S E E L I G. She was the top magnesium expert.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:02:46]:
And I called her when I was writing my first big magnesium book, the Magnesium Miracle. And Mildred said when she graduated from med school, she entered the pharmaceutical industry. Her job was to assess what happened to the various vitamins and minerals and hormones when people took drugs. And what she found consistently was that magnesium became elevated after a person took a drug. It happened over and over again. And it dawned on her, oh, my gosh. Are some of these drug effects created by magnesium Being more available, it would come out of bones and muscles, go in the bloodstream, and then be available to go into the cells of the various organs, you know, brain, heart, whatever, and create a beneficial effect that was attributed to the drugs. So when she took this information to her bosses, of course they fired her or, you know, just said, you know, let’s bury that.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:04:02]:
So seriously, what is happening? Nootropics, any drugs, shock therapies that we think are the latest craze for your health. Shock ice baths, shock high, high hot saunas and even hot yogas. What are they doing to the body? To my body would be like, you’re trying to kill me. And all the hormones, growth hormone would be elevated. All the indicators that are measured by these folks who are doing these shock therapies make them think that these therapies are helping. But what’s happening? Yes, you get this reaction, but when you produce more adrenaline or growth hormone or whatever is being produced, you need the building blocks to replace those hormones. So you are actually depleting your body over time. Even just basic sauna therapies.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:05:10]:
How many patients and now customers have I heard from who’ll say I was doing all this sauna therapy to detox myself? And I feel worse than ever because they’re sweating out their minerals. So there’s the answer to your question. I don’t use anything other than manipulating the amount of magnesium I take and vitamin C, omega 3 fatty acids, vitamin D, potassium. But as you know, Nick, I have them in the forms of the formulas in my company that are highly absorbed and if effective and efficient.

Nick Urban [00:05:56]:
And of course, the nootropics range from like the choline you naturally find in eggs to the most crazy synthetic research chemicals and all in between. And I love regardless whether you choose to go the entirely natural route or to use some of the more fringe substances, if you replete your brain and your body with the nutrients, you’re going to be setting yourself up for a better experience. Experience overall with less depletion because then your body isn’t having to strip it from other places.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:06:25]:
Perfectly sure, yeah.

Nick Urban [00:06:27]:
My experience when I was maybe 10 years ago when I was first getting into the sauna is I would really overdo it. And I’ve mentioned this back in the previous episodes with you, numbers 153 and 176. But then I started cramping and having like the side effects of over sauna use and also over cold plunging. And then I did increase my mineral supplementation, but at a certain point I was just doing Too much of it. And I didn’t need a 45 minute sauna session six days a week, seven days a week. Just cutting down the time and the frequency a little bit made a much bigger impact than continuing the way I was going.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:07:10]:
Yeah. And that’s why we call it biohacking. I, I tell some of the, the young people that interview me, I’ve been biohacking for 55 years. And that’s what we do. We experiment on ourselves, but sometimes we just drag it out too long until we suffer the side effects. So I’m telling people, look, I’ve biohacked for long enough. I know the answers. So let me just tell you what to do.

Nick Urban [00:07:39]:
Yeah. And the language reframe that I prefer is actually not biohacking, but it’s bioharmonizing, because that is a much more holistic solution that works over the long term instead of eventually running into the inevitable side effects and consequences of thinking we know better than our own biology, manipulating something and realizing it has all kinds of downstream consequences. Well, let’s dig into your book. You wrote the Complete Guide to Mental Health, and it’s a page turner, a lot of cool, interesting topics. And I think the place to start is with the first thing that caught my eye and was surprising to me. It ran runs completely perpendicular to what I learned in biology textbooks, and that is that there’s not just one mitochondria per cell, but in neurons. How many mitochondria are there? And for people who don’t know, what are mitochondria?

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:08:28]:
Okay, so mitochondria are the energy machine of the cells. They make your ATP adenosine triphosphate. They make it by starting with something called pyruvate that comes from another cycle called the glycolysis cycle. You dump glucose into the glycolysis cycle. Magnesium works on that cycle in eight different steps. It pumps up pyruvate. Pyruvate then runs through the Krebs cycle step by step with magnesium at several steps, including the end step, where the ATP seems to be bound to the magnesium, like the magnesium energy researchers talk about. ATP-mg.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:09:20]:
You can’t have that energy molecule without magnesium. So what I learned about, say, heart disease, because I got into magnesium, because I had heart palpitations. And magnesium quote, cured me. In the heart, each cell has 5,000 mitochondria in muscles and most other cells, one to 2,000. So I thought, bingo, the energy required by the heart is, is made by all these mitochondria. And then I was looking into everything I could about. Well, how are our brain cells called neurons different from heart cells or muscle cells? I mean, what makes us think that the brain is so complex and makes us kind of so detached from it that we don’t think we can fix the brain with nutrients? We think it’s so, so complex we have to have drugs or we have to have lifelong psychiatry intervention. So I asked the question, how many mitochondria in a brain neuron? And there are 2 million.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:10:38]:
2 million mitochondria in, in one neuron. And these neurons, they’re not that big. So it made me, it kind of blew my mind because that meant that the brain, neurons, the brain itself has to have a lot of magnesium to make the, the energy that the mitochondria are placed there for. It also made me realize, you know, Nick, how we talk about the. The brain uses 20% of the glucose in the body. It’s like, that’s a shocker. So the brain is so busy, it needs all that glucose. So all that glucose is going into the glycolysis cycle to dump into the Krebs cycle to make the energy.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:11:28]:
So, so it proves that, that the mitochondria are busy, busy, busy making energy because the brain needs a lot of glucose. So if the, if all that is happening, and I’m saying that, that magnesium plays a huge role in, in both cycles. And if we as a population of 80% of us are deficient in magnesium and if we look at the level of mental health problems and the stress that we’re under, of course, and the fact that nobody’s looking at nutrients, we’ve got a real gap here. And something that could be very helpful would be using magnesium for, for our brain. I mean, I, I mean, what do you think about that? You’ve, you’ve looked at the book. You, you, your brain was probably blown as well.

Nick Urban [00:12:28]:
Yeah. I recognized already that magnesium is crucial for a lot of things. We’ll also touch on other co. Factors that are involved throughout the body that magnesium influences for different processes and everything. I didn’t realize that there were 2 million mitochondria. I knew that mitochondria are intimately involved in the energy generation process, but that just brings a whole nother level of awareness and importance of actually making sure that levels in the brain as well as the whole body, but especially the brain, are adequate, if not more than that. And there’s no good way of measuring to see if we have insufficient magnesium in the brain specifically, is there?

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:13:06]:
Yeah, except the, the research I’ve done. We’ve got a study, 2020 out of Purdue on magnesium absorption. And if you used an ionized magnesium test, you find out how much of the bloodstream has iron ions of magnesium, which are the form of magnesium that will be absorbed into the cells, that will cross the blood brain barrier and will get into the neuron. So it’s all about the magnesium ions. And this test, the IMAG test, ionized magnesium test, it’s only done in university research projects and in ICU, some emergency medicine. But what we found in our 2020 study was that we froze blood from our human subjects and two years later, when we tested that blood for magnesium, same levels as two years prior. So we proved them that you can freeze the blood and send it to a lab that has these, the machines, the IMAG machines. So slowly but surely we’ll get to the point where we do this testing and we’ll start to prove that the importance of magnesium in chronic disease.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:14:35]:
Because, yes, Nick, like you said, there’s no test for magnesium. The serum magnesium test that is in the laboratories now, it is only measuring the amount of magnesium in the blood at 1%. So there’s only 1% of the total body magnesium in the blood. So we’re, you know, we’re, we’re dipping into that, that pool and we’re, we’re just going to come away with a very narrow margin of magnesium that the doctors have felt is so inaccurate and unimportant that they don’t even put it on an electrolyte panel. So you’re going into the hospital with a magnesium deficiency, heart arrhythmia, heart attack, you’re in heart failure because of magnesium deficiency, and they don’t even measure your magnesium. So this, this is how bad it is in, in cardiology right now. And in terms of brain, they don’t even think of nutrients for the brain because we, as I said, we’ve complexified it so much that we think we have to have really strong drugs to make any difference in the brain. But as we’re saying here, if you’ve got all these mitochondria needing all these nutrients, and as you say, it’s more than just magnesium.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:16:03]:
You have to have that neuron strong enough to, to hold in, in the, the mitochondria and everything to make it work. That means you need essential fatty acids, you need vitamin D, you need these fats to make strong membranes. You have to stay away from the omega 6 fatty acids from that want to come in and make weak, leaky membranes for Your cells and your neurons. So the omega 3 fatty acids are very important. And in my world, I live in Maui, so we’re always loving the, this three or four months that the, the whales come, the humpback whales come down from, from the Arctic. Their food is krill. And what, what is the most common fish oil that’s used in omega 3 fatty acids? It’s krill. So I don’t want to destroy the krill as the food for our, our favorite friends out here.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:17:11]:
So I made my formula out of algae because what makes the, the, the essential fatty acid omega 3 in, in fish, it comes from them eating algae. So that’s the, the source. So I just go to the source and you can buy clean algae and not have to get fish oils that have to be tremendously processed to take out all the toxins and waste and mercury and everything that ends up in fish liver.

Nick Urban [00:17:46]:
Yeah, the omega 3 industry in general is so problematic. I’ve looked into that quite a bit about like all the steps that are required. The product you get is often already rancid. And you put it in your body, you’re increasing oxidative stress and a lot of other issues. Just trying to do something healthy and not knowing that that’s causing those issues. And then some companies are like, our fish oil is cold processed, but then it shouldn’t be exposed to any temperatures above 80 degrees. I’m like, well, I put it in my body and it’s going to be 98.6. Hopefully, hopefully not too far below that.

Nick Urban [00:18:22]:
And what happens then? They’re like, well, we hope that it lasts long enough and doesn’t go rancid. Then I’m like, you guys are selling this. You should understand how to like buffer against those effects in some way so that I’m not going to be doing more harm than good. Because I don’t know if you’ve seen like the whole paradigm of bioenergetic health and the membrane pacemaker, membrane, pacemaker theory of aging and different things about like the saturation versus unsaturation content of membranes, cell membranes and how if it gets too saturated, there’s issues. Too unsaturated, there’s issues. But it’s fascinating that even a nutrient like Omega 3, especially when it’s highly processed and already oxidized, can cause issues in some people.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:19:07]:
Right? Yeah. I think the burping that people feel with the omega 3 fish oils is probably because they’re already rancid. Like you say, I know flaxseed oil. People say, oh well, I can get my Omega 3s from that. You have to keep flaxseed oil in your freezer because it goes rancid so quickly. And in terms of the membranes, I guess I look at the membranes too as getting too calcified because there’s a whole calcification theory of aging where in our society where we’re eating more calcium rich foods, we’re taking more calcium supplements, we’re getting more calcium fortified foods than we are magnesium and magnesium and calcium, they’re kind of antagonistic. Magnesium will help solubilize calcium and in soft tissues and actually direct the calcium into bones and teeth. So if you don’t have enough magnesium and you’re eating a lot of calcium, you’re going to calcify.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:20:15]:
I mean, I have a friend I met here and we do this morning walk, hundreds of us, I guess you’d say, down in front of the ocean and it’s the hotel boardwalk and it’s just beautiful. So I met this gentleman and every year he’s, he’s tipping more and more, you know, the, like a kyphosis. So finally I, I stopped him because I started doing public lectures here in Maui, the first time in 18 years. So I thought he’s got to know about magnesium. So I gave him the brochure to come to my lecture. I think I gave. Yeah, I gave him my book. I started handing out these book Magnesium the Missing link to Total Health.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:21:08]:
And then the next time I passed by, he stopped me and he’s like, he doesn’t talk to anyone. He’s like on a mission. I thought he was ex military, but he was a DA in Los Angeles. But it turns out he walks on a timer. So if you stop him, he loses his time. So he stopped me and he told me that when he was young, he was in the rodeo circuit and he was told to take calcium pills to keep his bones strong. So up until the, the day he read my book, he was taking calcium pills, he stopped. And then he, he got ahold of my magnesium and I swear he’s starting to straighten out.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:22:00]:
So this gentleman is the perfect example experiment of someone who overdoes the calcium and his body just started calcifying. It’s amazing. So that’s my theory of aging. But I come at it from the magnesium angle. But I certainly don’t forget about the membranes having to be very strong because what happens with cell membranes and with tissues, they need a lot of collagen and the vitamin C that we’re being told to take the RDA is 6o milligrams. And if you follow the work of Linus Pauling, he was talking about 10,000 milligrams. And he wasn’t just talking about minimizing colds and flus. He was working on heart disease.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:22:59]:
And his theory is, was, and is still is that if your, your collagen is weak because vitamin C helps make collagen, it’s pivotal in making collagen. If you have weak collagen in your arteries, especially at a, at a bifurcation point, you know, when a bigger artery becomes a little smaller capillaries or smaller arteries, that area at the bifurcation is subject to tension. And if you don’t have strong collagen, you’ll get a little tear. And that little tear is an emergency. And cholesterol’s job is to put a band aid on that tear, and that’s good. Okay? And then we wait for the next, you know, what, apple or orange or banana to get your vitamin C to heal it properly with the collagen. But what happens in a person who’s, who has a lot of calcium and not a lot of magnesium, that calcium will actually start building up on, on the cholesterol, and that’s your plaque. I mean, that, to me, is like a beautiful story of how people get, whatever, atherosclerosis, hardening of the arteries, plaques that then, you know, break off and cause brain stroke or break off and go into the coronary arteries is.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:24:34]:
I mean, what do you think of that, Nick? I’m sure you’ve heard it before.

Nick Urban [00:24:38]:
Yeah, I find that very fascinating. And I actually just sent a newsletter about vitamin C because I did a deep dive into all the different roles it has. It’s also crucial for the production of glutathione. It’s great for the recharging of other antioxidants. I guess one of those would be glutathione and also vitamin E. And I had a previous podcast guest, Dr. Thomas Levy. He wrote a book called Curing the Incurable.

Nick Urban [00:25:04]:
If you guys want to deep dive on all the different things that doctors throughout history have used vitamin C4, it’s fascinating. So there’s a deep dive there, and it’s so easy to get, and it’s not a very expensive supplement. So I think it’s smart and prudent to make sure your tissue levels of Ascorbate are stay topped off.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:25:25]:
Well, you know, it’s, it’s interesting. I had Tom and a few other vitamin C experts on my radio show a couple Years back, during the COVID years to talk about the importance of vitamin C. So, and. And Tom, he’s written a book on magnesium as well. So I said, okay, you’re the perfect person to ask this. Which is the more important nutrient, magnesium or vitamin C? And he is huge on vitamin C. Just huge. But he said it really has to be magnesium because magnesium does more than vitamin C.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:26:03]:
But of course, they’re both necessary. So I thought that was pretty cool. I cornered him. But magnesium, it. It’s involved with 80% of known metabolic functions. It’s head to toe. It’s working on every muscle. And I probably said in the last talk we had that I think there are 640 muscles.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:26:25]:
So it’s affecting all those muscles. It’s working on all your nerves. There’s 46 miles of nerves. So if. If you want an action in your nerves or your muscles, you have to have magnesium open the gateway for a little bit of calcium to go in and create the action, and then the gateway opens back up to pull it out. If you don’t have magnesium to do that, apparently calcium will just start flooding into these cells, the nerve cells or the muscle cells, and create the spasming or the, you know, the twitching or the pain. All the different nerve and muscle symptoms that we’ve heard about are related to a lack of magnesium and too much calcium. And that’s pretty dramatic.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:27:21]:
That’s amazing.

Nick Urban [00:27:23]:
It is. And it’s like the calcium is the excitotoxic one. It’s the stimulating one, if you have it in really high concentrations. And magnesium is like the chill one that, like, helps quiet things down in a beneficial way. Back to your previous example, when you mentioned the man who is calcifying, he’s taking calcium supplements. I’m under the impression that for bone health, you also want to have magnesium.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:27:49]:
Yes. So what happened there in the whole osteoporosis bone world is because our society was taking so much calcium, we started developing more osteoporosis because there’s not enough magnesium. Magnesium is necessary for the soft tissue scaffolding of the bones. Magnesium and collagen together are. Magnesium helps with making the elastin. Vitamin C is making the collagen. So in. In bone research, because women were.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:28:31]:
Were getting more osteoporosis, breaking bones and everything, and nobody could figure it out, it was because of a high calcium diet and lack of magnesium, they burned human bones to find out, well, what’s it made of? What are the minerals that make this solid object? We have to know those minerals. So they burn bone and it’s mostly calcium. But what they didn’t realize is they were burning off the soft tissue structure. They were burning off magnesium because magnesium is very volatile. I remember in high school chemistry, they gave us strips of magnesium, light a match or the Bunsen burner, put it up against a Bunsen burner and it just. And magnesium is the, the wick or whatever in fireworks, so it’s going to burn off. So they had this misinterpretation of their research that, well, bones are calcium. We better give people calcium and then come to find out.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:29:36]:
I mean, Boland, B O L L A N D In New Zealand, he did at least a half a dozen studies that showed that women who just simply take calcium supplementation are at a higher risk for heart disease and kidney stones and heels, spurs and gallstones, all the calcification side effects. So it began, sort of instigated some positive research about magnesium and osteoporosis. And they would even say magnesium seems to be more important than calcium and vitamin D for strong bones and reducing fractures. Now, when you look at the drugs that are used for osteoporosis, Fosamax, for example, what it’s doing is it’s stopping bone from being broken down by something called osteoclasts. Osteoblasts make bone, baby bone, B for blasts. So they make bone and then the osteoclasts make model bone and put it into its correct structure. If you stop the osteoclasts from working, which is what Fosamax does, it kills osteoclasts. Bone is not modeled and structured properly, so the calcium and the other minerals just that willy nilly attached to the bone matrix and make it brittle.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:31:21]:
It may look okay on the DEXA scan, but it is, it is brittle bone. If you look in, you know, high, higher, what is it? High definition. It’s all, it’s all wiggly squiggly. Fosamax is so bad that dentists won’t work on the jaws of people who are taking that drug because the bone is so brittle. So they’ve created, you know, better looking bone maybe, but they’ve made brittle bone. And it’s very frustrating because I’ve seen so many, I mean, strong women, like, you know, just incredible women who will be brought to their knees when they get this stupid DEXA scan that says, oh, you’re osteopenic, which means you’re getting less bone. Yeah, we’re going to get a little less bone as we get older. Because we aren’t moving around as much.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:32:26]:
We aren’t doing the things that running and whatever when we were younger. And that’s why we have to keep moving. You can build up bone very easily, you can build up muscle easily, but you have to work at it. The astronauts that went into space in the beginning, Armstrong and whoever, they lost bone, they came back with osteoporosis because they, they didn’t even have gravity pushing against their bones to create the tension necessary to, I guess, to form bone. So I don’t know, I’m, I sort of went off into one of my, one of my dark holes there. But bring me back, Nick.

Nick Urban [00:33:12]:
What you were just saying makes me think of is there is an idea that’s perpetuated that we can just look at something the way it comes out of the body and based on that composition, we can introduce it back into the body and all will be well. You mentioned that in regards to the calcium content of bone, once they burnt it off. But then also I look around, there’s a certain electrolyte company that says, oh, we mimic the exact composition of the sweat leaving your body and therefore this product should be intaken that way. There’s also another essential amino acid company, they say, oh, this is the same composition of amino acids. But the actual scientists in the field doing the research say no, no, no, you can’t do that because the way the body intakes it, there’s different rate limiting bottlenecks that are different than, than when it’s excreted. So you can’t just introduce the same thing and expect it to completely replete the stores.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:34:06]:
Yeah, it’s about the process, not the end result. I mean that makes me think of how thyroid hormones are made. I probably told you this after, after I worked on picometer stabilized ion of magnesium formula, I said I have to have multiple minerals. And come to find out that nine of the minerals I chose were very important in making thyroid hormone. And what we’ve come to think about the thyroid is, oh yeah, you need a lot of iodine because T3 and T4, the T4 is four molecules of iodine, T3 is three molecules of iodine. Pretty important. So people would say, oh, let’s take a lot of iodine. But their roadblock being when you give the body all that iodine and it makes the first step of making thyroid hormones, it overwhelms the next step, which may require something like selenium.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:35:10]:
And if you don’t have enough selenium, then you get a buildup of that pro hormone and that can cause problems or just, it doesn’t make your thyroid hormones. You become thyroid hormone deficient and you’re giving thyroid hormone replacement, which could be a synthetic instead of giving the next hormone in the chain, which could be boron or copper or magnesium. Molly. But then a manganese. It just blew me away. And personally, and I’ve probably told you this before, after six weeks of, of testing on myself this new multiple mineral, I got off my 60 milligrams of armor thyroid and my fingers and toes were warm for the first time in, you know, maybe 30 years. So yes, the body, and we’ve already said this about so many topics, the body has a way of working with things that we don’t even. We, we have no conception of.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:36:17]:
We haven’t studied it, we haven’t gone, we’ve gone into the minutia of things which can be fascinating, but we don’t know the big picture. There’s nobody standing back and looking at the big picture. Sometimes we can put it together. I mean, you, you do it all the time. You, you get, you, you know, bite down on a topic and you just research it until, oh, that makes sense. But then the next topic, oh my gosh, you know, that interacts there and there and there. Look at vitamin D. It requires magnesium in order to activate it.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:36:54]:
So that means to me, every vitamin D study they’ve done, if they don’t assess the magnesium content or intake of their subjects, they don’t know what they’re getting. So they’re making all these conclusions, you know, based on. Yes, just, just one little aspect of, of nutrients, not realizing you have to look at the whole picture.

Nick Urban [00:37:19]:
I also like what you said about iodine because I used to supplement iodine and actually stopped simply because it’s more complicated than that. And Dr. Alan Christensen, I think his name is, he’s like a thyroid expert and he cautions against excess iodine supplementation, especially the high dose iodine supplementation. I wasn’t sure of the exact mechanism. Why, I don’t remember. But it sounds like that’s probably it. You’re probably missing the other building blocks, or at least your average person’s missing the building blocks so that you’re not actually getting the full cascade of hormones and metabolites that you would. If you make sure you’re getting all the nutrients appropriately.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:37:55]:
Yeah, it’s almost like you take a high dose of one thing, it will, it will cause a demand for, on several other things and then that demand on several other Things will deplete them and then all the things that require those, those three other things, they become depleted. So it’s like this ping pong effect and, and that’s what happens with, with a lot of bio harmonizing. If you just take a high dose of one thing and in the beginning, oh my gosh, I feel wonderful. Like Matt Blackburn when, when he decided to donate blood because he learned that too much iron is bad for the body. He said the first time he donated blood he felt terrific. The second time it just whacked him and it took a month to recover. So, yeah, everything in, in balance, I guess what we’re trying to say.

Nick Urban [00:39:00]:
I used to donate blood regularly also, and I cut back on that. I do every once in a while, but not very often. And after our last podcast, I started adding some more copper to my routine. I don’t even know if this is gonna be bioavailable copper, but I also sometimes drink out of a copper non coated cup simply because ceruloplasm was low and I saw some. It was a paradoxical blood work that I had low levels of certain things and high levels of like iron saturation. I want to say it was, or something. And I started looking into it and realized that that could be the culprit.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:39:36]:
Yeah, ceruloplasm is awesome, I think. Who was it? Oh man, Pfeiffer. Way back in, was it 70s or 80s? I mean, when I was first in med school, this Dr. Pfeiffer PhD, I think he did a lot of mental health stuff. He started telling everybody we had too much copper. He made everybody scared of copper. And to this day, people are worried about copper. But copper is so important for your ceruloplasm, which is a transfer protein that carries copper and iron.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:40:15]:
So if you have iron deficiency, it could be because you don’t have the transporter, which is ceruloplasm, which requires copper in order to be created. So. And bioavailable copper is essential. And that, that can be in, you know, in food, but it’s also in my picometer stabilized ion of copper. I don’t do a copper alone. I do a copper in my multiple and I do a zinc and copper because what I saw during COVID you know, zinc is so important for the immune system. It’s what is stimulated with the use of ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine. It’s zinc that’s doing the job.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:41:04]:
So a picometer stabilized zinc is important, but I didn’t Want people taking high dose zinc, which 10 or 20 milligrams is about all I think people need of a, a stable ion of zinc. But I would always put in 1mg of copper to 10mg of zinc as a balancer. Because if you take high dose zinc, which some people are talking about 50 milligrams but it’s, it’s a zinc compound, if you’re taking that much zinc, you are going to reduce your copper absorption and copper, as we say, is absolutely crucial.

Nick Urban [00:41:45]:
How’d you settle on a 10 to 1 ratio?

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:41:48]:
Yeah, I probably read it over the years. I mean it comes to me from my naturopathic training. What have you heard?

Nick Urban [00:41:56]:
No, I’m just curious. I don’t remember the dosages off the top of my head or the ratios. I just, I’m always curious because there’s like a lot of different perspectives and opinions and of course as nutrients are more explored, of course that will change, I’d assume. But yeah, just formulation wise, I’m always curious. How about one topic I saw in your book that is hotly debated is the role of glutamate and monosodium glutamate or msg. One camp says that these things are totally benign and safe and the other says that these are very neurotoxic. And based on what we were talking about earlier, having unbalanced calcium magnesium levels can be excitotoxic. It stands to reason to me that glutamate would also be something somewhat similar because glutamate is excitatory, so.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:42:51]:
Right, right.

Nick Urban [00:42:51]:
Where do you stand on the MSG topic?

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:42:55]:
Well, personally, msg, I, I react to it. I get a headache and that was, you know, back 30, 40 years ago. So I’ve, you know, I’ve always avoided. But the glutamate, then the neurotoxic aspect of it I picked up when I was talking with Russell Blaylock. He’s a neurosurgeon and he’s written a book called Excitotoxins the Taste that Kills. And he’s been very vocal about the sweetener, artificial sweetener, aspartame and the glutamates. And then it doesn’t. Robert Lustig, the pediatric endocrinologist who, who did the well received video called Sugar the Bitter Truth.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:43:49]:
And he talks about glutamate being one of the factors that you have to avoid to stop insulin, insulin sensitive or insulin resistance. But I’m a little bit, I think it’s glutamate he talks about that we have to avoid that. I’ll have to look into that. But verboten for me.

Nick Urban [00:44:14]:
Yeah, there’s not really any reason. I mean I see people that advocate online just buying it bulk powder and just sprinkling it on your food to make it taste better. But even if it was totally benign and that was safe, you’re going to desensitize yourself to that. So that food you eat that doesn’t have MSG powder sprinkled on top isn’t going to taste as good.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:44:34]:
Right, right, right. Yeah, that’s interesting. I hadn’t thought about glutamate, but I was listening to Lustig on insulin resistance and he was throwing in glutamate there. I’ll have to check that out. And yeah, there’s, there’s so many topics to try to stay on top of. But you know, I love it in my world because I basically just look at the basic eight or 10 nutrients. Well, there’s a multiple mineral, but in general I just look at a handful of nutrients as being the basis. If I’m saying that 80% of known metabolic functions require magnesium and that comes from.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:45:18]:
Who was it? I think it was 2019. It was written about and I’m forgetting her name right now. That means if you’re not taking 600 milligrams of magnesium a day, then you’re not activating all your enzymes and it has to be an ionized magnesium. See this is my kind of breakthrough, Nick. When, when I discovered my heart palpitations after this is, after Random House asked me to write this book, I was in New York, I was doing AIDS and chronic fatigue research. I was on, on the New York media, I was on the View until they started doing to direct to consumer television advertising because they didn’t want me on, you know, putting down drugs. So I was shocking, I was doing all this research on magnesium but was so painful for me because when I, when I found out oh my heart pavilions can be magnesium deficiency and I tried to take more than 50 milligrams, I had an extreme laxative effect. So it took me 10 years of research to get a chemist who would make a non laxative magnesium.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:46:46]:
And I realized from my own experiment, you know, necessity is a mother of invention that the people who are out there suffering what, what I’ve listed in this book as 68 different diseases that are passed over as magnesium deficiency. You know, heart diseases and high blood pressure, inflammation, infections, anxiety, angina, they are treated as diseases but they could be magnesium deficiency. So why don’t we do magnesium first before we go to all the drugs that treat these diseases that cause more magnesium deficiency? That’s my thesis. Let’s get enough magnesium into a person and then what’s left over we. We can play with instead of, you know, doing the symptom. Symptom treatment of magnesium deficiency.

Nick Urban [00:47:51]:
It’s amazing how many different things the magnesium does. And that list continues to grow with the years. There’s one substance you could put in the water universally to impact human health. It should be magnesium.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:48:04]:
Very good. Yeah, good point. I’d love that.

Nick Urban [00:48:07]:
You also mentioned in your book the. That people who have bad reactions to caffeine, that could be a symptom of magnesium deficiency.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:48:17]:
Well, with caffeine, it’s a diuretic. So people lose magnesium when they drink caffeine, but they also use it to wake up. I mean, it just. It’s ridiculous. If I read any, you know, just a novel just to distract myself from. From what I’m doing. Everybody, oh, I can’t wait for my coffee. Oh, I didn’t, you know, I haven’t had my two cups of coffee.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:48:45]:
We are a population addicted to coffee as a way to keep us awake or wake us up. Whereas if you had magnesium, your body would be awake and alert. That’s what I find. People who start getting their proper magnesium, they don’t need the coffee, the stimulant anymore. They’re not that keen on alcohol. They seem to, you know, be able to quit smoking. All the things that we use to sort of perk us up. But the caffeine, it just strikes me as such an addiction.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:49:23]:
And you. Who was it? Pollock is his name. Shoot. Pollock wrote a book on. I don’t know if it was on hallucinogens or drugs or whatever, but one of the chapters was on caffeine and how he decided to do it, to do an experiment. N equals 1. And he was the experiment. And he stopped caffeine for a couple of months, and he said how he perked up and this and that, and he thought it was amazing what caffeine had been doing to him.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:49:55]:
But then at the end of the three months, he said, yeah, but I like the taste and I kind of like the high it gives me. So he went back on coffee, but I never got into it. I. I would be too. Too impatient, even. We drank tea and my. Or my mom drank tea. I’d be so impatient, I’d.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:50:15]:
I’d take a drink and it would burn my tongue. So I. I just. I stopped drinking. Any hot beverages. So I never got into the coffee scene, which was good for me because I, I, I joke with people that the only coffee I take is in my coffee enema.

Nick Urban [00:50:33]:
Oh, that’s good. And also caffeine affects people so dramatically differently, like if you’re a slow oxidizer versus a fast oxidizer. And also I noticed from working with women that they tend to not do as well on caffeine as men do. Paint with a very broad brush here. And also I do the same thing every once in a while. I’ll take a long period off of no coffee. And I say long. So it’s really only like two or three weeks.

Nick Urban [00:50:56]:
But then I come back to it and it feels like a totally different experience. And after about day five or six, my baseline energy and mood and outlook on life, it definitely creeps back up to above what it is usually and dare I say, above what it is when I’m using caffeine regularly too.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:51:18]:
Yeah. So going on and off would, would give your body good your, give your enzymes a chance to shift because the, I guess the toxic metabolites of coffee, it creates certain enzymatic patterns. But if someone is, is taking six and eight cups of coffee a day, that’s problematic. We, we, we get come across customers who they’ll, they’ll eat junk, they’ll drink coffee. They may or may not smoke, but they’re not, and they’re not sleeping, they just collapse. That’s like a total body meltdown. They’re living on adrenaline. They’re forcing themselves with always pumping, pumping adrenaline with caffeine.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:52:12]:
So we’ve got that type of addictive behavior in young people now. And I mean, they get themselves back on the nutrients and a proper diet. But I’ve seen that too much, I see too much of that.

Nick Urban [00:52:27]:
It’s also interesting to me that you mentioned that when you’re properly nutriented. That’s not a word, but I’ll make it one. I also have higher energy levels. Like I will sometimes have my nutrients and minerals before I go on a nice long morning walk. And then on my morning walk I’ll notice, oh, I feel great right now. I don’t need anything. Then I get home and of course I decide to make myself a coffee anyway. But I never connected the dots that might be related to the magnesium intake.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:52:56]:
Well, if you think about magnesium being necessary to make your ATP, then you’re definitely using it for that purpose. And I think one of the biggest symptoms that people come to their doctor about is fatigue and not sleeping. And instead of saying, well, take magnesium. The doctor will say, well, here’s a sleeping pill. But not telling them that you’re not supposed to use a sleeping pill for more than two weeks because it can become addictive. Or if you don’t have energy and you seem listless and you complain about your mood, then they’ll say, oh, well, maybe you’re depressed and put you on a. Put you on a drug that. That maybe has a fluorine fluoride molecule in it that will be broken down in your gut.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:53:54]:
And the fluoride will bind with magnesium and make it unavailable. So that’s how the drugs can be depleting your magnesium.

Nick Urban [00:54:04]:
What should people look for on the label or the drug name, the active ingredient name to know if their medication has fluoride in it?

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:54:12]:
It’s a simple Wikipedia search. You just type the name of the drug in Wikipedia. It will show you the chemical formula on the side. And if it has an F or two Fs, or three Fs, or six Fs, some of these drugs have six Fs. The one that comes to mind is desfluorine. It’s an inhaled anesthetic that’s used in surgery. So it’s just ripping off your magnesium. And what did they say about surgeries is a lot of people come out of them with heart palpitations.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:54:52]:
And to me that’s magnesium deficiency.

Nick Urban [00:54:55]:
So fluoride and fluorine, those displace magnesium and other minerals they don’t displace.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:55:02]:
It makes a magnesium fluoride compound called cellate.

Nick Urban [00:55:08]:
Oh, yeah, that’s a nasty one too.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:55:10]:
Yeah. And that cellate will. It’ll deposit in tendons and joints, and that causes the joint pain and tendon rupture. That is actually a black box warning for a fluoride drug called ciprofloxacillin, an antibiotic. So the story I tell there is the athletes who come to us and say, hey, I had tendon rupture. I heard about this. Cipro does it. I take Cipro every once in a while, you know, so I can get rid of a cold when I have to do an event.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:55:48]:
So it’s this accumulation of these fluoride drugs that can affect even young people. But what gotten away from the brain? Have we done enough brain?

Nick Urban [00:55:57]:
I mean, more on the brain. Something else that is very important to energy metabolism and overall cognition you wrote about in your book. And it’s also very big in the pro metabolism, energy first crowd. And that is the B vitamins. There are three that are written about mostly and talked about mostly in pop culture. B, 6, 9 and 12. But there’s more B vitamins.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:56:25]:
Yeah. And I guess the 6, 9 and 12, 9 is folate, 12 is. They’re the methyl bees. And the thing about the methylation started to come to a head around the genome project when they found out, what is it? 30% of the population has the MTHFR gene variation. It’s not a, I don’t call it a genetic abnormality as if it’s, if it’s untreatable, it’s a gene variation where you can’t methylate properly. And methylation, if you look into that, it’s doing genetics, it’s doing metabolism, food breakdown, it’s everywhere in your body, methylation. But when it comes to genes, you know how important it is because it can affect the, the genetic structure anyway, because it’s such a problem, people think oh yeah, we got to give more bees. But they went synthetic and the synthetic beads are not necessarily methylated and they aren’t methylatable because they’re synthetic.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:57:50]:
So what I work with, there’s eight bees. I make four of them food based and four of them methylated and low dose because the body doesn’t deal well with sort of being pounded by high dose synthetics. What we’re looking for in the cells, it’s receptor sites. And these receptor sites, you know, they need a little tweak and then apparently the nutrient goes in. But synthetic nutrients just pound on these receptor sites, eventually they’ll open up and you’ll get some reaction. That’s where I noticed this in, in my evolution in medicine. I went into medicine wanting to do natural medicine, but there were no naturopathic colleges and, and I didn’t even know there was such a thing as naturopathy up in Canada. So I, I went to med school and then did my naturopathic training afterward.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:58:52]:
And the nutrients that were available back then in the late 70s were all natural, they were all food based. And then when the industry got accepted and it got lucrative, they decided that, oh, let’s make, these chemicals can be made in a lab, let’s. They make them out of coal tar. They look just the same, but they’re different rotational spins so they’re not going to fit into the receptors the same way. So it went from, you know, low dose food based nutrients to these synthetics. And then I watched, people would say, doctors would say, well you know this, the 10 milligrams is a B vitamin complex. 10 milligram in general isn’t working well. Let’s use 25 men, let’s use 50, then let’s use 100.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [00:59:45]:
Oh well, I think we have to inject it. So they were forcing, forcing, forcing the bees without realizing that they, they’d left the food based bees back in the, back in the, you know, dark ages. So that, that’s what I’m working with and that’s what I see working really well and really importantly because the, the B vitamins in, in the brain there.

Nick Urban [01:00:11]:
With B12, I’ll see like 8,000% of the RDA. And is that because they’re really just trying to force it because the body’s not accepting it?

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:00:19]:
Yeah, yep, that’s it. That’s it. And when you look at each of the bees, they all do a little bit the same, but they do so many different things. It’s, it’s really hard to categorize them. You could write a whole book on the things that they found and maybe another second volume on what they will find because they are so important, you know, for the nervous system. They, they talk about high dose bees. Was it Abram? Abram Hoffer and Linus Pauling. They introduced orthomolecular medicine and orthomolecular means ortho and it came to mean high dose nutrients.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:01:11]:
Where is it? It meant balance. It’s like you’re saying about biobalancing, bioharmonizing. We wanted a balance but it became high dose. But the B vitamins, when they’re synthetic, if you ram them, they will have some effect. We hear about niacin therapy for example. High dose niacin for the heart. But anyway, the bees are exceptionally important. But what, what do you know about them, Nick?

Nick Urban [01:01:40]:
What I find fascinating is that a lot of the nootropics that are B vitamin derivatives are B1 for some reason. And that’s like the TTFDs, the sulbutamine, the benfotiamine, like there’s a bunch of different ones that are like synthetic nootropics that are B vitamin derivatives. And I’m not sure why it’s just B1 specifically, not the others.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:02:03]:
Yeah, I mean it’s another thing to explore. But again, when they’re synthetic, it, it’s hard for me to accept that they’re nutritionally balanced and, and going to work, going to play well with the others. They all have to integrate and work well together.

Nick Urban [01:02:24]:
Yeah, that’s kind of the theme of our conversation today. What I liked also is that you mentioned that these impact the epigenetic methylation patterns in the brain too. So if someone’s really curious about improving their biological age through an epigenetic test, perhaps making sure you have the right amount of B vitamins would be a good start.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:02:45]:
And the right amount in the right kind, you have to be food based and methylated. They really do.

Nick Urban [01:02:52]:
Yeah. I’ll see some forms that have unmethylated B6 and that if you get too high of a dose, can cause neuropathy and like debilitating, very serious conditions.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:03:06]:
Yeah, good. Yeah, exactly.

Nick Urban [01:03:08]:
I don’t think I told you this, but a while back after our last podcast, I looked up magnesium L3 and 8 and the research behind it because it’s everywhere. Everyone’s talking about how this is the only form of magnesium that crosses the blood brain barrier and it’s the only one that impacts sleep and all those recovery markers. The research behind it is terrible. It’s a very low quality. And in those papers the researchers even mentioned that the only reason it had the effects it had is because of the concentration of magnesium itself. So it’s not even the threonate part of it, which you also mentioned is a breakdown product of threonine of vitamin C. So I was just like blown away that the entire industry has this perception of magnesium L threonate being the brain magnesium, when there’s like nothing supporting it, next to nothing. And like good old fashioned ionic magnesium probably is going to have the same if not greater impact on the brain.

Nick Urban [01:04:08]:
But it’s not as well researched in terms of like ionic magnesium and cognitive function, is it?

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:04:14]:
No, no, we’ve just done an absorption study. It’s just so expensive to do these studies. But the, yeah, the threonate people, it’s not a threonine like which is an amino acid that is good for the brain. It is just a breakdown product of vitamin C. But they did a rat study that showed that in cerebral spinal fluid there was 7% more magnesium from the three and a rats. Then I think it was a citrate group, 7% difference. And with that they did their million dollar marketing and they made everybody think, like you said, that it’s the best of the best. But what I have said about that and probably said to you already is that any magnesium will help the body.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:05:04]:
And some of the, the breakdown of a magnesium compound, even magnesium oxide that’s 4% absorbed, when it breaks down into its constituent ions in a dissociation in the bloodstream, you’ll get a magnesium ion, it’ll pop into the Brain. They’ve done enough studies with magnesium oxide over the years. It was the first magnesium that was used in research. They have brain, positive brain effects. You cannot, you cannot go wrong. Go, go to your cupboard right now and you’ll see a magnesium. Start taking it. If it’s a powder, put it in water and, and sip it through the day.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:05:48]:
You know, don’t just take one dose and oh, I’ll take a dose at bedtime and I’ll be fine. You sip it through the day. If it’s a liquid, even better. That’s what I work with. But the, the powders are good to put in water and take through the day.

Nick Urban [01:06:04]:
That’s what I’ve been doing since our last conversation too. Instead of just taking the mineral rich shot in the mornings, I mix it into my water and sip it throughout the day along with my shilajit and other things. So I’m getting a constant infusion of minerals. If people want to try your products, where do they go? And also if they want to connect with you, where’s the best place for that?

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:06:26]:
Right. My storefront is rna reset.com rna reset.com and my educational site is Dr. Carolyn Dean.com and there, there’s my radio show, my articles, blogs, outreach, interviews, everything and books, my library. Yeah, it’s quite important to get this information out there. I mean we’ve talked offline about how in the COVID years we all either got Covid or got the COVID jab and both introduced something called spike protein in our bodies. And we have to take our nutrients to help the detoxification process, to make our membrane strong, to make our tissues strong. We all have to be aware of supporting our immune system and just realizing that we’re the only, we’re the only ones that can take care of our own health because doctors do not have a clue. Something I’ve been working with Nick actually is a form of selenium.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:07:44]:
I knew about selenium from my AIDS work back in the 90s. Selenium was high in the areas of Africa that did not have aids. So we know it is very important and to do a picometer size stabilized form of selenium is very, very advantageous, let me tell you.

Nick Urban [01:08:11]:
Can you add that into your multi mineral product? Beautiful. Yeah. I use your remag magnesium and your remight minerals every single day. I want to put this out there that I’d like if you would create a bulk size that’s twice as large as the current sizes because I go through them very Quickly.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:08:29]:
Yeah, we have a 16 ouncer.

Nick Urban [01:08:31]:
Yeah, I want the 32 ouncer, though.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:08:33]:
Oh, I see, I see. Oh, I make up 10 days worth. You know, I put it in one of the 16 ounce bottles. I make up, you know, all my different Picometer minerals. I’m taking three tablespoons of all my minerals a day. But seriously, I mean, how good is it? Here I am at 76, feeling better than I did in my 30s because I was developing so much magnesium deficiency, but still high functioning. You know, I pushed and pushed and pushed, but when, when I found out about my need for more magnesium and then created the Picometer minerals, boom, you know, I’m, I’m good to go for another 30, 40 years.

Nick Urban [01:09:23]:
Oh, question for you that I just thought of that might also apply to people who are not using or just using generic mineral products. If I have your multi mineral, I’ve been adding that with my magnesium specific, like ionic magnesium of yours. Is it better to separate those or am I gonna, am I gonna mess up the ratios at all by combining them together?

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:09:46]:
I don’t think that’s a problem. I. People ask me about, you know, oh, we’re not supposed to take calcium with magnesium or whatever. I said, God, put all the minerals together in, in your vegetables. So, so don’t think that you have to separate them. You know what I’m saying? It’s like the body figures it out.

Nick Urban [01:10:08]:
As long as you don’t overwhelm the body with more than it can handle and process at once.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:10:13]:
Yeah. That’s why we’re both talking about drinking your mineral water throughout the day.

Nick Urban [01:10:19]:
Last time you mentioned that a good defense against heavy metal poisoning or toxicity is to be fully mineralized. I’m curious if you looked into the impact at all of the minerals on microplastics, if there is any.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:10:33]:
Right. Well, with the microplastics, I’m saying really get your fiber going. And by that I just mean something like psyllium seed powder. I got into psyllium seed because when I started intermittent fasting, two meals a day really cut back on my food amounts. My stomach kind of shrunk, so I didn’t feel like I, I needed so much. And with all on my formulas, I don’t feel hungry and I feel satisfied because I’m getting out of my formulas what we should be getting out of our food. We’re not getting the nutrients out of our food anymore. So with the two meals a day, I wasn’t getting as much fiber as I thought I needed.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:11:21]:
So I take A good tablespoon of psyllium seed powder every day. And I think that’s going to help draw out the microplastics. I haven’t really. I’ve certainly thought of it. You know, what could we do? What specifically could we do? I think they’re a foreign body. The body doesn’t want them. They can be, I think. I don’t know if this is true.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:11:48]:
They’re probably being stored in fat. So if you can lose some fat, then those microplastics get back in the bloodstream, get. You know, we start pulling them out with the fiber and probably the magnesium is going to do something, but they’re plastic, they’re. They don’t have a chemical charge, so they’re not going to. What are they going to bind to except something like. Like a fiber that will just pull them, pull them out. If. If they’re in the digestive tract, if they’re in the bloodstream, what happens in the bloodstream? They go through them.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:12:25]:
Lymphatics and the cisterna chile up here in your chest. And I think they will eventually get dumped back into the intestines, but I think I might just be making that up, but I don’t know. Nick, what have you heard about. Is interesting that this is problematic. Now we’re eating a credit card a year.

Nick Urban [01:12:51]:
Oh, I think it’s a lot more than a year now. I think the more recent research is like a credit card a week or something ridiculous. But there’s also like microplastics and nanoplastics. And it turns out all the people who are talking about how they can taste the plastics in the water bottles that have sat in the sun for days on end were actually onto something. And it really was because they were consuming literal plastic. And I don’t haven’t seen any research on the role of minerals on microplastics and nanoplastics. I wouldn’t be surprised if it has some kind of effect, whether it’s like helping the body, I don’t know, excrete them more effectively, but I haven’t seen anything. So it’s just pure speculation.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:13:28]:
Yeah. Another thing that I’ll have to look into.

Nick Urban [01:13:31]:
I can think of so many cool studies to design around your mineral products, such as the impact on satiety hormones, the GLP1s. Perhaps this could be another natural alternative to the GLP1 drugs out there. Obviously not as powerful, but there’s a lot. And I hope that this area receives more research and attention in the years to come.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:13:52]:
I’ll have to talk to Bobby Kennedy about that.

Nick Urban [01:13:54]:
Yes, exactly. Well, Dr. Dean, how would you like to end our episode today? Any final takeaways you want to leave listeners with?

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:14:00]:
We have to be appreciative of what we have. We’ve got to be thankful, be smiling, be exercising, do all those happy things. Because I know in, in the world we live in now, there’s a. There’s a lot of stress, a lot of distraction. But I think if we, we kind of have to isolate ourselves a little bit and do some good work, you know, hug people more. My husband laughs at me because, you know, when friends talk about, oh, I was walking with Carolyn and everybody comes up and hugs her and it, to me, it’s just normal. But you know, to my husband, he thought, that’s so bizarre. Why are they hugging you? And it’s wonderful.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:14:50]:
You can find the most awesome people. I told the story of my radio show on Monday. There’s this woman in our local Costco, and she came up to me one day to help process me faster through checkout. And I just got a hit of such good energy from her. After I went over to her and I asked if I could touch her and I told her that she had such radiance and such energy. And then I saw her second time and I went up to her and she gave me a big hug and I literally tingled. So if, if we can, you know, just express that and, and reach out for that, I just, I mean, I’m down there hugging the boat boys and, and the billionaires. I mean, I don’t care.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:15:43]:
You know, they’re getting it and then they’re along the walkway. There’s these. Well, they call them feral cats. And they come out and they’ll wind around my legs and I don’t even feed them. So. So just, just bringing the energy in and, and use it and this world.

Nick Urban [01:16:03]:
Would be a much better place if that was the universal perspective and the actions align with that.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:16:09]:
And thank you. Thank you for what you do. Seriously, thank you.

Nick Urban [01:16:14]:
Likewise. I appreciate you coming back for a third time. If you guys want to check out more you like this conversation, you can go back to episode number 153 and also 176. And then if you want to try some of her minerals and other Whole Foods derived supplements, you can use the code urban on rna reset.com and that’ll save you 10% on your order. Well, thanks again. We’ll be in touch. We’ll talk again soon.

Dr. Carolyn Dean [01:16:41]:
Thanks, Z. Love you.

Nick Urban [01:16:42]:
Thanks for tuning in. To high performance longevity. If you got value today, the best way to support the show is to leave a review or share it with someone. Someone who’s ready to upgrade their health span. You can find all the episodes, show notes and resources mentioned at outlier. Com. Until next time, stay energized, stay bioharmonized, and be an outlier.