With Shawn Wells, Biochemist & Author of The ENERGY Formula, Episode 116
What You’ll Learn
- Biohacking balance: Why integrating both masculine (planning, stacking, data) and feminine (intuition, self-care, nature connection) strategies produces better health outcomes than rigid optimization alone [03:22]
- Carb backloading: The science-backed approach of keeping carbohydrates low in the morning and consuming them later in the day to boost serotonin, improve melatonin production, and enhance sleep quality [05:05]
- Carb swishing: How rinsing simple carbohydrates in your mouth without swallowing can deliver similar psychological and performance benefits during 45-minute workouts, with only 17-20 grams needed if consumed [08:30]
- Echo dosing: Shawn Wells’s trademarked approach that combines microdosed psychedelics with macro-dosed nootropics, specific scents, and music playlists to create psychosomatic anchors for lasting neuroplasticity [09:51]
- Supplement quality control: Why you should never buy supplements from retailers without third-party testing, and how brands like Thorne and NOW set the standard for quality assurance [21:19]
- Mitochondrial health: How aging speed directly correlates with mitochondrial function, and why mitochondrial decline predicts disease risk more reliably than most conventional biomarkers [32:55]
- Nootropic stacking: The specific ingredients Wells recommends for cognitive enhancement, including Alpha GPC, CDP choline, Lion’s Mane, and adaptogens like Ashwagandha for stress resilience [35:06]
- Polyphenols for the brain: 5 key polyphenols (resveratrol, quercetin, EGCG, chlorogenic acid, fisetin) that support BDNF production, NAD levels, and neuroplasticity for long-term cognitive health [41:01]
- Empathogens & cannabinoids: How the endocannabinoid system uses compounds like anandamide, PEA, OEA, Kanna, paraxanthine, and kratom for mood regulation, pain, and inflammation support [56:05]
Why It Matters
Most people either take random supplements without knowing what works, or they follow rigid protocols that ignore their body’s real-time signals. Shawn Wells has formulated over 1,000 supplements, patented 25 novel ingredients, and spent nearly 25 years in the industry. His framework bridges the gap between scientific supplementation and intuitive self-care so you can stop wasting money on expensive urine.
Who Should Listen
- Biohackers who spend hundreds monthly on supplements but can’t tell which ones are actually working.
- Health-conscious individuals who want to understand how carb timing, nootropics, and polyphenols affect brain performance and aging.
- Anyone curious about psychedelic-assisted neuroplasticity who wants a structured, supplement-integrated approach to echo dosing.
The Biochemist’s Guide to Smarter Supplementation
Shawn Wells, MPH, RD, CISSN, FISSN, is one of the world’s foremost nutritional biochemists and the author of The ENERGY Formula. On the High Performance Longevity podcast, he breaks down 25 years of formulation experience into a practical masterclass on supplements, nootropics, and biohacking ingredients. From carb backloading protocols to his trademarked “echo dosing” framework for psychedelic integration, Wells covers the full spectrum of modern supplementation science.
The conversation explores how to evaluate supplement quality (and which retailers to avoid), the 5 polyphenols that drive BDNF production and NAD levels, and a complete nootropic stack for cognitive enhancement. Wells details how mitochondrial health predicts aging speed, why fluid and crystal intelligence both matter for brain optimization, and the role of empathogens like cannabinoids, Kanna, and paraxanthine in mood regulation.
You’ll walk away with a framework for running proper self-experiments with isolated nutrients, a polyphenol shortlist backed by clinical data, and concrete strategies for carb timing that improve sleep, recovery, and energy throughout the day.
Key Terms Quick Reference
[05:05] Carb Backloading:
Eating carbohydrates primarily in the evening after physical activity rather than in the morning. Boosts serotonin and melatonin production, improving sleep quality while maintaining ketotic fat-burning during the day.
[08:30] Carb Swishing:
Rinsing a carbohydrate-containing liquid (like a sports drink) in your mouth without swallowing. Sublingual taste receptors signal energy availability to the brain, providing performance benefits without caloric intake.
[09:51] Echo Dosing:
Shawn Wells’s trademarked post-journey protocol combining microdosed psychedelics (in the exact strain, blend, and ratio from the original session) with macro-dosed nootropics. Creates psychosomatic anchors that sustain neuroplasticity for weeks after a ceremony.
[32:55] Mitochondrial Health:
The functional status of mitochondria, the energy-producing organelles in every cell. Wells calls it the strongest predictor of aging speed and disease risk, more telling than most standard biomarkers.
[40:18] Fluid vs. Crystal Intelligence:
Fluid intelligence is the ability to solve novel problems and think abstractly; crystal intelligence is accumulated knowledge and experience. Optimizing both through targeted nootropics and polyphenols supports lifelong cognitive performance.
[41:01] BDNF (Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor):
A protein that supports the survival, growth, and differentiation of neurons. Key polyphenols like resveratrol and fisetin stimulate BDNF production, promoting neuroplasticity and long-term brain health.
[56:05] Empathogens:
Substances that increase feelings of emotional connection, empathy, and openness. Includes endocannabinoids (anandamide), PEA, OEA, Kanna, and paraxanthine. Wells discusses their role in mood regulation and trauma processing.
How Do You Choose Quality Supplements?
The short answer
Look for brands with third-party testing, research-backed dosing, and transparent ingredient sourcing. Avoid buying supplements from retailers who don’t require quality certifications from their suppliers.
What Wells found
After formulating over 1,000 products, Wells emphasizes that smaller companies often lack the quality control infrastructure of established brands like Thorne or NOW. Many don’t perform third-party testing, and consumers have no way of knowing what they’re actually getting. He recommends isolating one new ingredient per week, journaling the results, and being realistic about bio-individuality rather than expecting miracles.
What to do about it
Start any new supplement as a solo ingredient for at least one week before stacking. This follows the scientific method: you can identify what’s actually working and what’s counterproductive. Choose brands that disclose their testing certifications on the label or website.
“If you’re shotgunning too much stuff, you’re kind of bypassing the scientific method. You don’t know what’s actually working and what isn’t.” – Shawn Wells
Related: Top Supplement Brands & Companies
Which Polyphenols Best Support Brain Health?
The short answer
Resveratrol, quercetin, EGCG, chlorogenic acid, and fisetin are the five polyphenols with the strongest evidence for enhancing BDNF production, supporting NAD levels, and promoting neuroplasticity.
What Wells found
Each of these polyphenols targets different pathways in the brain. Resveratrol (from red wine and grapes) and fisetin (from strawberries) both enhance BDNF production directly. EGCG from green tea improves cognitive function and promotes neuroplasticity. Quercetin and chlorogenic acid provide antioxidant and anti-inflammatory protection that preserves neural function over time. Wells emphasizes that stacking multiple polyphenols creates synergistic neuroprotective effects.
What to do about it
Incorporate these polyphenols through both food sources (berries, green tea, coffee, red grapes) and targeted supplementation. Prioritize bioavailable forms, as many polyphenols have poor absorption in standard formulations. Pair them with a solid nootropic foundation for compounding cognitive benefits.
“How well we’re aging is a result of mitochondrial health.” – Shawn Wells
Related: Polyphenols Guide
What Is Echo Dosing & How Does It Work?
The short answer
Echo dosing is a post-psychedelic-journey protocol that pairs microdosed versions of your exact ceremonial substances with macro-dosed nootropics, specific scents, and music to sustain neuroplasticity and integration for weeks afterward.
What Wells found
Wells developed and trademarked the echo dosing concept after years of working with psychedelic facilitators. The key insight is specificity: you use the exact strain, blend, and ratio from your original journey in microdose form. Combined with psychosomatic anchors (scents like sage or Agua de Florida, the specific playlist from the session), the protocol helps your nervous system access the integration state on demand. He pairs these with macro-dosed supplements that support neurotransmitter recovery and neuroplasticity.
What to do about it
If you work with a psychedelic facilitator, request the exact strain and preparation for post-journey microdosing. Combine with neuroplasticity-supporting supplements (Lion’s Mane, nootropic stacks). Replay your journey playlist and use the same scents during integration sessions over the following weeks. Always allow at least one full rest day after a ceremony before returning to daily routines.
“Echo dosing combines psychedelics with specific blends and ratios of substances for different effects during a journey.” – Shawn Wells
Related: Nootropics Beginners Guide
The Wells Supplement Evaluation Protocol
A practical checklist for evaluating any new supplement before adding it to your stack. Designed for biohackers and health-conscious individuals who want to avoid wasting money on ineffective or potentially harmful products.
- Third-party testing: Confirm the brand uses independent lab verification for identity, potency, and contaminants
- Isolate first: Test one new ingredient per week minimum before combining with other supplements
- Journal your response: Track subjective effects daily for at least 7 days, noting energy, mood, sleep, and digestion
- Research-backed dosing: Verify the dose matches what clinical studies used, not just the minimum to put on a label
- Source transparency: Check that the brand discloses raw material sourcing, manufacturing location, and certifications
- Bioavailability form: Prefer patented or enhanced-absorption forms (liposomal, chelated, methylated) over generic versions
- Timing alignment: Match carbohydrate and stimulant supplements to your activity cycle (carbs with movement, stimulants before noon)
Common supplement mistakes
- Stacking too fast: Adding multiple new supplements simultaneously, making it impossible to identify which is actually working
- Ignoring bio-individuality: Assuming that what works for an influencer will produce the same results for your unique physiology
- Buying from unverified retailers: Purchasing supplements from sellers who don’t require quality certifications from their suppliers
Source: Shawn Wells’s Supplement Evaluation Protocol, Independent Biochemist & Ingredientologist
Frequently Asked Questions
What is carb backloading & why does it improve sleep?
Carb backloading means eating most of your carbohydrates in the evening after physical activity rather than in the morning. Carbs increase serotonin production, which converts to melatonin, helping you fall asleep faster and sleep more deeply. Since you are semi-ketotic after sleeping, keeping carbs low in the morning extends that fat-burning window.
What is echo dosing?
Echo dosing is Shawn Wells’s trademarked protocol for post-psychedelic integration. It combines microdosed versions of the exact ceremonial substances (same strain, blend, and ratio) with macro-dosed nootropics, specific scents, and music playlists to create psychosomatic anchors that sustain neuroplasticity for weeks after a journey.
How do you know if a supplement brand is trustworthy?
Look for third-party testing certifications, transparent ingredient sourcing, and research-backed dosing that matches clinical studies. Established brands like Thorne and NOW have rigorous quality control infrastructure. Avoid purchasing from retailers that do not require quality certifications from their suppliers.
What are the best polyphenols for brain health?
The top 5 polyphenols for brain health are resveratrol (red wine, grapes), quercetin (apples, onions, berries), EGCG (green tea), chlorogenic acid (coffee), and fisetin (strawberries, apples). Each supports BDNF production, NAD levels, antioxidant protection, and neuroplasticity through different pathways.
What is carb swishing & does it actually work?
Carb swishing involves rinsing a carbohydrate drink in your mouth and spitting it out rather than swallowing. Research shows sublingual taste receptors signal energy availability to the brain, providing similar performance and psychological benefits during shorter workouts (around 45 minutes) without consuming the calories.
Why is mitochondrial health important for aging?
Mitochondria produce the energy that every cell needs to function. According to Shawn Wells, how well you are aging is a direct result of mitochondrial health. Mitochondrial decline predicts disease risk and aging speed more reliably than most conventional biomarkers.
Should I test one supplement at a time or stack them?
Wells recommends isolating one new ingredient per week and journaling the effects before adding another. This follows the scientific method and prevents you from wasting money on supplements that may be counterproductive. Once you have confirmed individual effects, you can combine them into a purposeful stack.
Products, Tools, & Resources Mentioned
Outliyr independently evaluates all recommendations. We may get a small commission if you buy through our links (at no cost to you). Thanks for your support!
Supplements & nootropics
Nootopia: BiOptimizers’ nootropic line featuring targeted brain supplements for focus, mood, and cognitive performance.
BiOptimizers: Full-spectrum supplement company cofounded with formulations Wells contributed to, covering digestion, sleep, and cognitive support.
Update Paraxanthine: Energy drink featuring paraxanthine, the primary active metabolite of caffeine. Developed using Wells’s patented ingredient technology. Save 10% with code URBAN.
Books
The ENERGY Formula: By Shawn Wells. A comprehensive guide to biohacking ingredients, supplement stacks, and health optimization. Recognized by USA Today and Forbes.
The End of Alzheimer’s: By Dr. Dale Bredesen. The first program to prevent and reverse cognitive decline, with research-backed protocols for brain health.
Guides & articles
Shawn’s Free Supplement Guides: Personalized supplement recommendations organized by health goal.
Best Bioavailable Resveratrol Supplement: Outliyr’s review of top resveratrol supplements for absorption and longevity benefits.
Carbohydrate Backloading Guide: Complete breakdown of carb timing strategies for performance and sleep.
Best Fisetin Supplements: Reviewed fisetin supplements for bioavailability and senolytic potential.
Best Quercetin Supplements: Max-absorption quercetin options reviewed for longevity and immune support.
Teachers & influences
Don Miguel Ruiz: Author of The Four Agreements. Wells cites Ruiz as his favorite teacher and a major influence on his personal growth journey.
About Shawn Wells
Shawn Wells MPH, LDN, RD, CISSN, FISSN is one of the world’s leading nutritional biochemists with nearly 25 years in the supplement industry. He has formulated over 1,000 supplements, food products, beverages, and cosmeceuticals, and patented 25 novel ingredients including Paraxanthine, Teacrine, Dynamine, and Dihydroberberine. His approach uniquely blends rigorous ingredient science with intuitive health practices like breath work, grounding, and psychedelic integration. His book, The ENERGY Formula, was recognized by USA Today and Forbes and became an Amazon bestseller in multiple categories. Find him on social media @ShawnWells.
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Full Episode Transcript
Nick Urban [00:00:05]: You ever wondered if those expensive designer supplements you’re taking are doing little more than resulting in expensive pee? In this episode you’ll learn everything you need to know about supplements, yet no one’s told you, such as the retailer you should never buy your supplements from, some of the common pitfalls in deceptive tactics used in the supplement industry, and how to avoid those, the basics of running self experiments. Which ingredients you should choose for particular outcomes and purposes, and a whole lot more. Welcome to Mind Body Peak Performance. I’m your host, Nick Urban, and you are tuning in to episode number 116. Today, we’re joined by my friend, Shawn Wells.
Nick Urban [00:01:15]: Shawn was recently in the podcast back on episode 95 with Daniel Solomon of Drink Update. Shawn was the mastermind behind the main active ingredient in the Update energy drink. It’s widely considered to be similar, but superior to caffeine. Shawn Wells is the world’s leading biochemist and an expert on health optimization. He has formulated well over a 1000 supplements, foods, beverages, and patented 25 novel ingredients, including Paraxanthine, Teacrine, Dynamine, Dihydroberberine, and is now known as the Ingredientologist.
Nick Urban [00:02:15]: Formerly a chief clinical dietitian with over a decade of clinical experience, he has counseled thousands of people on innovative health solutions such as keto, paleo, fasting, and supplements. He has also personally overcome various health issues including Epstein Barr virus, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, depression, insomnia. As a world renowned thought leader on mitochondrial health, he has been paid to speak on 5 different continents. His book, The Energy Formula, has been recognized by both USA Today and Forbes, as well as an Amazon bestseller in multiple categories.
Nick Urban [00:03:10]: Sit back, relax, and enjoy this supplement deep dive with Shawn Wells. Shawn Wells. Welcome back to Mind Body Peak Performance.
Shawn Wells [00:03:22]: Thank you for having me. It’s good to be on a second time solo this time.
Shawn Wells [00:03:50]: I try and keep an excellent sleep hygiene routine, but I also allow for kindness and ease to myself. I plan everywhere I can, but I also have the creative flexibility, flow, intuitiveness, empathy, and care for myself to say, this is what my body needs right now. We can set it up to have excellent goals and routines, but I can also be in flow.
Shawn Wells [00:04:30]: I used to be so rigid. I’d be taking all the supplements, doing NAD IVs. And then I started finding this more feminine energy. Now there’s the grounding and the breath work and the meditation and prayer and gratitude and sun gazing and forest bathing. We need some self-care. We need connection with nature. We need connection with each other.
Shawn Wells [00:05:05]: I have a high fat, high protein meal first thing in the morning. If you’ve just been sedentary sleeping through the night, it’s not ideal to have carbohydrates, especially high glycemic carbohydrates. You’re already semi-ketotic so you can extend that. Then we’re thinking of carb backloading. You were active all day, so now get your carbohydrates. Those carbs help increase serotonin. That helps increase melatonin. You actually sleep better if you carb backload.
Nick Urban [00:07:23]: I had no idea that you also are a fan of carbohydrate backloading. I’ve been doing that for probably 8 or so years on and off. It’s the style of eating that makes me feel the best. Staying very low carb during the daytime and then around the actual workout, I introduce carbs. I recover faster, my thyroid improves.
Shawn Wells [00:08:03]: There’s really interesting data around what’s called carb swishing. You take the Gatorade and swish it around. Your body, tasting it sublingually, there’s shortcuts that happen that make you think you have the carbohydrates but you can spit it out. They’ve shown similar benefits. And if you do want the carbs during an hour workout, it’s only around 17 or 20 grams that makes a difference.
Shawn Wells [00:09:51]: I’ve trademarked this idea called echo dosing. In a journey with my facilitators, we’d have a heart opener like MDA from Sassafras. Then psilocybin in ceremonial cacao. The next day, San Pedro with mescaline. The echo dosing uses that exact strain, prepared by that exact facilitator in that exact blend and ratio. You’re having macro-dose nutrients that help with neuroplasticity. Add scents like sage or Agua de Florida. You listen to that journey playlist again. Those are all psychosomatic anchors.
Shawn Wells [00:14:25]: Breath work is something I do. I like box breathing. The box is the four-sided box: inhale, hold, exhale, hold. A 4 to 8 second box is pretty good. Spread your breath in and spread your breath out for the entirety. It’s a controlled inhale, controlled exhale.
Shawn Wells [00:18:05]: I’ve been in the industry for almost 25 years. I’ve done over a 1000 formulations, patented 25 unique ingredients. One of which was Paraxanthine in Update. I’ve helped take 11 companies to sale. I’m a chief clinical dietitian. I wrote The ENERGY Formula. I’ve also been very outspoken on mental health, on psychedelics, on my journey with depression.
Shawn Wells [00:19:47]: If you’re shotgunning too much stuff, you’re kind of bypassing the scientific method. You don’t know what’s actually working. I recommend isolating nutrients, giving yourself a week to journal on it. The other risk is you don’t have the same quality control. Smaller companies just don’t know whether they have the same focus around quality control. They’re not doing third-party testing.
Shawn Wells [00:21:33]: I’m looking at the science. I’m looking at feasibility. Can I commercialize this? Is the price feasible? What does it taste like? Can we source it realistically? And patent ability is a big thing. What are the existing patents? Are there gaps where I can create something new?
Shawn Wells [00:32:55]: Mitochondrial health is so critical. How well we’re aging is a result of mitochondrial health. These are the energy producers for every cell. When mitochondria decline, that’s when we see disease manifest.
Shawn Wells [00:35:06]: For nootropics, I love Alpha GPC and CDP choline as a foundation. Then layer in adaptogens like Ashwagandha and Lion’s Mane for stress resilience and neurogenesis support. Match your stack to your specific cognitive goals.
Shawn Wells [00:40:18]: Fluid intelligence versus crystal intelligence. Fluid is your ability to problem-solve novel situations. Crystal is your accumulated knowledge. Both matter for performance and both decline differently with age. You can support both through targeted supplementation.
Shawn Wells [00:41:01]: Polyphenols are huge for the brain. Resveratrol enhances BDNF production. Quercetin is linked to improved memory. EGCG improves cognitive function and promotes neuroplasticity. Chlorogenic acid has neuroprotective effects. Fisetin enhances BDNF and supports brain health. Stack these together for synergistic neuroprotective effects.
Shawn Wells [00:50:20]: When it comes to substances in trauma treatment, you need proper set and setting. You need integration support afterward. The substance is just a tool. The real work happens in integration. That’s where echo dosing becomes so powerful.
Shawn Wells [00:56:05]: Empathogens are fascinating. Cannabinoids work through the endocannabinoid system. Anandamide is the bliss molecule. PEA and OEA modulate inflammation and mood. Kanna is an incredible mood elevator from South Africa. Paraxanthine gives you clean energy without the anxiety of caffeine. Kratom has therapeutic applications when used responsibly.
Shawn Wells [01:05:10]: You can find me at shawnwells.com. I have all my guides there for free. I’m on social media @ShawnWells everywhere. The book, The ENERGY Formula, is available on Amazon.
Shawn Wells [01:06:45]: Don Miguel Ruiz. The Four Agreements completely changed my life. Not taking things personally, being impeccable with your word, not making assumptions, and always doing your best. Those four principles created the foundation for everything I do now.
