Superior Herbs That Raise Testosterone, Balance Hormones, & Boost Performance (He Shou Wu, Pine Pollen, Blue Vervain, Shilajit & More)

Nick Urban [00:00:03]:
You’re listening to High Performance Longevity, the show exploring a better path to optimal health for those daring to live as an outlier in a world of averages. I’m your host, Nick Urban, bio harmonizer, performance coach, and lifelong student of both modern science and ancestral wisdom. Each week, we decode the tools, tactics, and timeless principles to help you optimize your mind, body, and performance span, things you won’t find on Google or in your AI tool of choice. From cutting edge biohacks to grounded lifestyle practices, you’ll walk away with actionable insights to look, feel, and perform at your best across all of life’s domains. How do you know if your body is out of sync or just overwhelmed by the wrong inputs? Logan Christopher isn’t your average supplement master. He’s a strong man who built a business around restoring harmony between humans and herbs. In this episode, we talk about blue vervein for overthinking, Shilajit for foundational energy and nutrition, and why Logan treats supplements more like sacred rituals than quick fixes, and why the future of health might actually come from looking backward to the wisdom of the earth. In this episode, we cover substances like pine pollen, ancient Chinese herbs, adaptogens, ashwagandha, cordyceps, rhodiola, tongkat ali, hormonal health, testosterone, phytoandrogens, xenoestrogens, the difference between spagyrics and other tinctures, antiaging herbs, immune support, performance supplements, the so called superior herbs, and a whole lot more.

Nick Urban [00:02:01]:
Joining us is Logan Christopher. He’s a human performance expert dedicated to natural endurance, optimal health, and self care. After losing his mother to cancer, Logan cofounded Lost Empire Herbs in 2012, offering herbal solutions rooted in ancient wisdom to support hormonal health and peak performance. Known for incredible feats like juggling flaming kettlebells and pulling fire trucks by his hair, Logan combines physical mastery with deep knowledge of recovery, resilience, and mindset. Today, he helps others unlock their full potential using time tested principles of strength, wellness, and mental toughness. If you wanna try his products, you can find them at lostempireherbs.com. My code urban will save you 20% on your order, and he’s one of the few in the industry who backs his supplements with a full three hundred and sixty five day money back guarantee. He has some pretty unique things as we discuss in this episode, such as black ant extract.

Nick Urban [00:03:10]:
And this right here, this is Cmax, a nootropic peptide that I recently wrote about. If you wanna explore that topic, that’s a whole another rabbit hole. You can find a link to an article I wrote in that in the show notes for this episode. This right here is the pine pollen. They’ve been conducting some research on it as he mentioned in the episode as a natural hormone helper for primarily men, but also women. You can find all those links I just mentioned and everything else we discuss in the show notes for this episode, which will be at outlier dot com, o u t l I y r, dot com slash the number two hundred and ten. Let’s join Logan as he brings us back to explore nature’s medicine cabinet. Logan, welcome to the podcast.

Logan Christopher [00:03:58]:
Thanks for having me, Nick.

Nick Urban [00:03:59]:
Today, we’re gonna explore a world I haven’t touched as much upon as I want to given how prevalent it is in my own routine and and supplement stack and everything. So before we get started, what are the ingredients or herbs or substances you use today for your health, your performance, and your bio harmony?

Logan Christopher [00:04:22]:
Great question. Well, just before this podcast, that’s that’s a time when I specifically I take some herbs in order to get ready for a podcast. And usually for me because as as people here, I get excited when I talk about this stuff. So I usually take some things that take some edge off. The first was the He Shou Wu tincture. He Shou Wu is one of the top antiaging substances in Chinese medicines. One of my favorite. When I when I take this and our tincture is one of my favorites I’ve I’ve ever had.

Logan Christopher [00:04:52]:
It it feels like it just goes deep into my cells and nourishes everything. It has a very subtle calming effect. Like, most people won’t be able to notice, but I just, like, I feel good when I take that. And I also took Pandora’s Peace. This is a formula that combines ashwagandha, blue vervain, tulsi, rose, and a bit of honey. And many people may have heard of ashwagandha. This is a really well known, root out of Ayurvedic medicine that helps to reduce stress levels and can reduce cortisol along with that. Tulsi is also an adaptogen, also known as holy basil, that really has a wide range of effects on on the body and is, really like a kinda good general adaptogen.

Logan Christopher [00:05:36]:
The blue vervein is one of my favorite herbs. It is specific for the nervous system. It’s known as a bitter nervine. So it has a really bitter flavor. When it hits the tongue, I can actually feel the nerves in my body, and I I tend to carry tension around my shoulders here. I can feel the nerves let go and then the muscles relax. So it’s it’s one of those herbs that’s really good for an instant effect. Now, not everyone notices it, but a good amount of people do.

Logan Christopher [00:06:00]:
So, this was my pre podcast stack that I took today.

Nick Urban [00:06:05]:
Nice. And that last one, blue vervain, is something that I only hear herbalists discuss. It doesn’t seem like it’s caught on at all outside of that context. How did you get involved in this whole whole world, which you obviously are very adept at now?

Logan Christopher [00:06:20]:
Yeah. I took a different route to herbalism than most people do. For me, as I was pursuing my, I guess, my business and my career of being a strongman, doing the things that I wanna do, not coming from a background of naturally being stronger athletic. I was really searching for an edge everywhere. So as I got into health and nutrition as part of that, one of the routes I went down was herbalism. For me, I started with the cordyceps mushroom or fungus, and, this was something that I was hearing Olympic level athletes were taking this and breaking records. So I was like, well, I gotta try this thing. I took it, and in that that workout, I could feel if I was, like, swinging or snatching kettlebells that my endurance was better, breathing was just a little bit easier.

Logan Christopher [00:07:01]:
So from that moment, I was really hooked and then it was just a matter of, like, learning more. I mean, herbalism is a deep dive that you you can go down for years and years with, different systems across the world, all sorts of different things to learn, but I just put one foot in front of the other and, have found that there’s a wide variety of herbs that can help human health and performance.

Nick Urban [00:07:21]:
Yeah. For me, it was pretty similar. It was cordyceps. That was the first one I noticed. I took and actually noticed when I was working out. I could feel, like, a tangible shift. That may be a high dose niacin. I definitely feel that, not necessarily in the best of ways.

Nick Urban [00:07:34]:
But cordycepsis is a lot more pleasant. And, yeah, when I heard I think it was the Chinese Olympic team. They were using it for performance specifically that caught my attention. And then I also explored Ashwagandha, rhodiola, bunch of the classic adaptogens. And did you notice like, what did you notice were the most efficacious in your strongman career?

Logan Christopher [00:07:53]:
There’s different ones in different ways. So the the cordyceps was a big one there. I mean, rhodiola is really good for energy. Generally has a tangible feel to it. And that’s that that’s something that you mentioned that is a key point. So the way I speak about it is so many people take supplements on faith, and this may be scientific faith. Right? They they hear something is good for them, that that it’s proven that it works. Right? So they they take it and, you know, is this vitamin d working for me? I don’t know.

Logan Christopher [00:08:20]:
If you go from, like, super deficient to optimal levels, yeah, you’ll probably notice it. But for the average person, they might not notice a a benefit from doing it. Not meaning you shouldn’t take it. Like, most people could probably use some vitamin d support. It’s one of those things that, most of humanity is chronically deficient in, especially in the West. But with herbs, if we can really get to, like you can feel that whether that’s in the instant with, like, blue vervein or after taking it for a week or a a month, then that’s really something that that gives you that personal experience. And some people may say it’s placebo, but, you know, as long as it works. Right? If you have better performance in your workout, I don’t care if it’s placebo or it’s something I took.

Logan Christopher [00:08:56]:
I want better performance in my in my workout. The black ant or polyrhachis ant, this is another one used in Chinese medicine. This is one that a lot of people will feel the, tangible energy. Like, it it feels like they have more energy, so it’s been great as a pre workout. Those are some of the good ones there. Then as far as hormone health, so, your workouts, you’re not gonna have great results if you don’t have, good or optimal levels of testosterone flowing in your body. So some of the herbs that help there, like pine pollen and tongkat ali, those are really potent ones there. And those also come with sexual benefits.

Logan Christopher [00:09:35]:
This is kind of a silly story. So when I was first using tongkat ali, and this is a a root out of Malaysia, it is well, it’s one of the most scientifically proven roots to help with both testosterone and, sexual function. But it I so I feel for me, I was actually, like, a below average testosterone person growing up, just from whatever environmental chemicals, whatever reason. Like, I I didn’t have hair on my chest. I didn’t have some other things that people would, think about the time that y’all was literally, like, not even a hundred pounds entering high school. So, this was somewhere in my twenties. I I first started taking Tongkat Ali. I’m at the grocery store just shopping, and, a attractive looking woman walks by, and I just automatically started following her without I’m only, like, a committed relation.

Logan Christopher [00:10:24]:
I just started following her for, like, two seconds before my conscious mind kicked in. And I was like, well, what am I doing? Like, this was one of my early experiences with Tom Kelly and just, like, noticing, like, oh, there’s there’s a lot more going on in my body than I had kind of felt before. So that was an interesting experience.

Nick Urban [00:10:43]:
Yeah. And so that was a big one. When I look into some of the research on testosterone boosting ingredients that are natural, a lot of them take men from very low testosterone, say a total testosterone in the two hundreds or three hundreds up, like, an impressive boost, say, a 50, two hundred points, but then they’re on, like, the four hundred to five hundred nanograms a deciliter, I think it is, range. Are you seeing that these also improve either testosterone levels or, like, the more subjective quality of life that goes along with testosterone that might be a different form of testosterone or other hormones that were not actually measured?

Logan Christopher [00:11:20]:
Yeah. Great questions. So, I’ll start off by saying that science is super expensive and difficult to do. So with the pine pollen, we just did this last year with the our pine pollen tincture. So that is the alcohol extract of the pine pollen, which is rich in phytoandrogens. And we did a trial. So this was men that had low testosterone to, like, midline testosterone. And those guys, 45 plus.

Logan Christopher [00:11:46]:
Small study, no no, placebo control or anything, just a a pilot trial. So 10 men, and on average, they did see testosterone increases, but we also paired this with a quality of life, questionnaire that looked at kinda androgenic symptoms. So it’s asking, like, how is your energy level? How is your athletic performance, your work performance, your happiness level, your sexual performance, kinda covered the the different gamut of things. And while the testosterone did see some increase, it didn’t quite reach, statistical significance. It was just under it because it’s a a small study and there’s quite a bit of variation in there. On the other hand, with the the symptom survey, it did reach, a good amount of statistical significance. These guys went from below average on these scores to above average. And while we say, like, oh, if you have more testosterone, you’re gonna have these benefits.

Logan Christopher [00:12:38]:
Yeah. That’s that’s kinda seen. There is a whole bunch else going on, and it’s so, basically, to have run, like, to get free testosterone or sex hormone blind gobbling, all these different factors that would matter for someone’s health, every one of those metrics is gonna add thousands of dollars to the trial. So, we we are running a second trial right now with younger guys, and we’re focusing a little more on sexual health. But in this one, we are looking at sex hormone binding globulin as well. So with that, we’ll be able with the total testosterone to calculate free testosterone. So that will be interesting to see the results on that. That should come out sometime later this year.

Logan Christopher [00:13:15]:
I haven’t even seen the results. I I heard from our people doing the study that things are going well. So, but that that’s a little explanation of why we often see the results that we, do in the scientific studies. And the the thing is is, yeah, in most cases, if you’re trying to get some sort of, effect, then having guys that start with lower testosterone, that’s just gonna be easier to see an effect there. But usually, the trials are pretty short term. For instance, with the pine pollen trial, that was eight weeks there. Again, just costs a lot more money to go longer term. But if you can get a 50 boost in eight weeks, you know, what happens if you continue taking it, continue to do other things as well for your life, because, you know, it’s not just about the herbs.

Logan Christopher [00:13:56]:
We do wanna blend it with everything else we do in life. Well, I

Nick Urban [00:13:59]:
think that’s the only way to really do it is to make sure you’re doing as much as you can that’s within your control first, and then add the herbs on top of it, and then get the maximum possible effect.

Logan Christopher [00:14:09]:
Well, in in some cases, though, I like to see the herbs kinda act as a quick start. Right? So you got someone with a lack of energy, lack of motivation. They’re just not feeling well. They can take some of these herbs and literally it’s like turning on something that was turned off and they didn’t even realize it was turned off. Because so often our health declines just little bit by little bit where it’s, so subtle we don’t quite notice a difference. Like, think about what was your energy level twenty years ago to now? Like, can you really gauge that? Right? Especially if it’s a slow decline. So if your testosterone levels are here and they just jump up to right here, you may notice that benefit, then you have more energy to work out, then you have motivation to, do things in your life that can really support it. So, yeah, I I do see herbs often as this is that thing that’ll get that last, like, 10%.

Logan Christopher [00:14:59]:
But in some cases, it really can be one of the starting steps that really sets the, snowball in motion.

Nick Urban [00:15:05]:
Yeah. I say that about a lot of things, including, like, nootropics as well. It’s like, if you don’t have the motivation, it’s gonna be hard to build the habits that are essential to getting farther down the line. But if you start using nootropics or whatever it is, then it makes that habit a little easier, and you can actually capitalize on both the lifestyle fundamentals as well as the little extra boost that you would get otherwise. And then also, I’m curious to see the results of your new study that you’re running because I saw the Pine Pollen one in your newsletter. But then to me, like, total testosterone isn’t really as important as free testosterone because, like, that’s what actually counts as far as I’m concerned. Are you looking at I think the other thing to look at is albumin that also binds testosterone.

Logan Christopher [00:15:50]:
Yeah. So this is a somewhat of a a complicated manner. For me, personally, I like to see total testosterone and free testosterone in the optimal ranges. Like, one without the other isn’t as good as just one. So both of those are important. The thing is I I feel we’re still missing some of the ideas. So the difference between total testosterone and free testosterone is this, protein called sex hormone binding globulin. The original idea was that this binds to testosterone inert in the body.

Logan Christopher [00:16:21]:
However, this was the early idea. That’s how science tends to go. It’s like, oh, we see it doing this one thing. Therefore, we know how this works in the body. Meanwhile, the body is like, we got biology. We’re very complex. You don’t quite understand this yet. So, the there are receptor sites that can still bind to the sex hormone, binding globulin and allow testosterone or some of the androgens.

Logan Christopher [00:16:45]:
Doesn’t just bind to testosterone, but other androgens and estrogens as well. So it can still have some effect. And albumin so albumin is another protein that weekly binds to the testosterone. So that means it’s likely to bind to it and then pop off at some point. Whereas once sex hormone binding globulin combines, they tend to stay together. So, yeah, it’s a it’s a more complicated picture in that. That’s why I like to look at both of them. Secondarily to that is the topic of endocrine disrupting chemicals.

Logan Christopher [00:17:16]:
I kinda had this hypothesis early on is like, okay. So we have all these chemicals in our body, not just our own hormones, but hormones coming from bisphenols, from, phthalates, all kinds of different chemicals that, you know, are are new to human and biology. And is sex hormone binding globulin having some role in the processing, the transporting of these around the body? So that’s something I’d like to see explored even more how sex hormone binding globulin may even play an important role. So as with all thing, it’s not like, oh, this is bad and we wanna get rid of it completely, but we wanna be within these certain ranges. And even those ranges, that’s kind of like, well, we look at all these humans and see what is average and and then pulling out optimal from that. That depends on how much data we have and then there’s individual differences. So it it is it’s a bit complicated. But again, just what I aim for is look at both total testosterone and free testosterone if you can and shoot for optimal levels in both of those.

Logan Christopher [00:18:15]:
And if you have that, then your hormones as a a guy should be running pretty well.

Nick Urban [00:18:20]:
Yeah. Okay. And then I’ve heard you mention on another podcast, I think it was a long time ago, something called the superior list of herbs. Does that fit into the picture at all?

Logan Christopher [00:18:30]:
Yeah. So the place I got started with my herbalism training was in the Chinese Taoist philosophy of herbs. And this is just one philosophy of herbs, but, one of the the longest ones along with Ayurveda that kinda has, been used widely spread widely. But, really, if you look, there are herbal systems all across the world. Yep. Any natural people living in the area figured out the herbs that worked as medicine for them. But in this Daoist philosophy of herbs, they class the herbs into three different categories. There was the superior herbs, the general or middle herbs, and the inferior herbs.

Logan Christopher [00:19:06]:
The inferior herbs were those ones that you would take when you were sick in order to have some sort of curative effect. Now we live in modern society, so herbs can’t cure anything just in case the FDA is listening here. And really that’s not the herbs that I focus on. This is good to know, like, what are your first aid type of herbs? You know, if you get cuts, scrapes, burns, different things, these are herbs that can be very useful in these cases, as well as, with various colds, allergies, different things like that. You don’t

Nick Urban [00:19:36]:
need to explain them. Can you list what what a couple of those are?

Logan Christopher [00:19:39]:
Yeah. So for example, for the let let’s say you get a cut. Something like plantain, which is a common leaf. Most people would recognize this if they saw it, but don’t have any or they they have plant blindness, so they don’t know the plants that are around the right. You could just take this, chew it up, and put it as like a spit poultice on your arm, and it will help because it has some astringent factors to help bind that up. You can take plantain internally as well. And one of the things that can help with is, leaky gut because it’s doing that same sort of action in there. Yarrow is another one that comes to mind.

Logan Christopher [00:20:11]:
This, I I have heard, will literally, like, stop arteries from bleeding. So it’s a very amazing plant with a wide range of effects. I’d actually probably put this one up in that superior class, but, I did get the chance to use this one time when I was cut last summer when I was camping. I ripped up my, the thumb a little bit and that a friend was like, oh, I have a first aid kit. I was like, no. There’s yarrow all around. So I gotta do that. And literally, I, like, just put it on and a few seconds later, it had stopped bleeding completely.

Logan Christopher [00:20:39]:
Yeah. It’s really kinda cool. So these are just some ideas. Right? But, so that’s the inferior class of herbs. The the middle one is just really in the middle of these two, but the superior class of herbs, this is the creme de la creme. This is, only a few herbs would fit into this class and they had a couple of different, ideas of what needed to be in order for it to fit here. One, you had to be able to take this, like, every day long term and it not have any sort of toxic effects. So it has to be extremely safe.

Logan Christopher [00:21:10]:
It had to have, dual direction activity. Right? So it’s not just gonna drive you in one direction. Right? So cayenne. Right? Super hot pepper. Right? If you take this every day, it’s gonna throw you into imbalance. It definitely has some great uses in what it can do as a circulatory stimulant, but it’s it’s not one of these herbs you just wanna be on all the time. Right? So this is gonna have that kind of modulating, activity, in common parlance now like adaptogen. That is really how most people see it.

Logan Christopher [00:21:39]:
It’s it’s those herbs that are gonna help your body better adapt to stress, essentially. But really, this can be across the immune system, all across all sorts of this different systems in the body. So if you have this incredible safety and non toxicity, and then you have this dual direction activity, couple other qualifiers there, but basically these these best herbs, you can stick to these. And these are going to not just help you with disease, which is kind of a, a lower level functioning of health. Right? If you think of health as the absence of disease, that’s not actually a really good definition. Right? I like to think of health as optimal performance, right? Do you have the health to, you know, have the thriving energy throughout the day to be able to pursue your passions and really go after them, this this sort of thing? So can we take herbs that really support you at this level? And the more you take this herb, these herbs, the better off you’ll be essentially. And, yes, of course. I mean, you can drown yourself drinking water.

Logan Christopher [00:22:34]:
So there is a point of too much and, it does depend on your constitution to to some point. Like, even, the great superior herbs like reishi, like some people this may not work for. So there is individuality in all of these, but overall, this idea of just seeking out the best of the best. This is a, for me, a much more approachable way to herbalism for the average person. Right? Just focus on some of these top herbs. You don’t need to learn all this, like, medicine. You don’t need to learn anatomy. You don’t need to learn this stuff.

Logan Christopher [00:23:02]:
Just start playing around in this zone, and in general, you’re gonna do yourself well.

Nick Urban [00:23:06]:
Yeah. Well, now you have us on the edge of our seats because I think you’ve mentioned one, which is reishi. And what are some of the other herbs that fall into the class of superior herbs?

Logan Christopher [00:23:16]:
Well, most of the herbs that I’ve mentioned would definitely do in there. So, again, understand that this was from the Chinese system. So that that he shu wu, that is one of the top ones there. Goji berries, schizandra, all sorts of different herbs here. Just because it’s a Chinese system, when I first started training, I was like, why do they have all the good herbs over there? I I just didn’t understand our, rich history of western herbalism because it really was shut shoved down underground much more so than it was over there. And I just happened into that system first. But, like some of the herbs I was talking about, yarrow, nettle, I think, is a a great one that can fit into this class. So definitely, there are these herbs across the world that are gonna have great benefits, ashwagandha, shilajit.

Logan Christopher [00:24:02]:
These would be some from Ayurveda as well. So, again, every system’s gonna have this. It’s just kind of a different lens, a different perception of looking at herbs because really in the West especially, there’s still this kind of focusing on taking herbs in order to overcome, injury or something like that much more so than can we really just continually to support our health. And I think that’s something that with this idea is and it kinda came out of the Taoist superior herbalism idea of what I like to focus in as performance herbalism. So how can we perform better with the herbs that we’re taking? And whether this is in the gym, in the bedroom, at at work, in a bunch of different ways with your sleep, for example, all that.

Nick Urban [00:24:43]:
I like that. Performance herbalism. Okay. So with that list, would you say that those are the same as adaptogens? Is there overlap? Is it more broad, more narrow of a classification?

Logan Christopher [00:24:55]:
Yeah. So adaptogens, this originally came out of Russian research in, I believe, it was the sixties, and they were looking at just a a few herbs. Among them was rhodiola, eulothero, also known as Siberian ginseng, schizandra. And with these, they were specifically looking at stress, both physical stress and mental stress. And some of the early research was showing that just a single dose of these, sometimes it was definitely a bigger dose, but that people’s, like, work capacity, their their, work capacity increased super big. Their fatigue went down low, and this was what they’re looking at. And kinda comparing this to something such as caffeine or coffee, where you would have the, the jacking up of the central nervous system, but how that would have some unbalanced effects in doing it. So this this is the early Russian research that the term adaptogen was coined for, and it is that idea that an adaptogen helps your body better adapt to stress.

Logan Christopher [00:25:54]:
As happens with words oftentimes, it just kind of spread and now like every herb is kind of an adaptogen. Whereas it depends on how we’re using it. So if you wanna go for more of that specific thing, then really it’s gonna be those that are working with the the stress response in the system. But the thing that is really close to what we’re talking about is this dual direction activity. Right? So if something is too high, it can help bring it back to baseline. If something is too low, it can bring it back to baseline. So it’s able to work in both directions. Today, earlier, I was writing an article based off of a a comment from a customer saying like, oh, I saw some research that sustanche, reduces nitric oxide.

Logan Christopher [00:26:34]:
Now sustanche is another one of the the top herbs in Chinese medicine specifically for sexual function. It’s known as the stock enlarger or substantia in your pants. Just to give you an idea of what this that that this does. Back in the 1500, ’16 hundreds, Chinese, the people they would all their formulas that were used for sexual function, like, 80% of them included Cistanche. So it’s it’s well known for this, and it’s one of my favorite herbs. Not just for that function, it helps with hormones, it helps with cognition a bit as well, immunity. It really is kind of,

Nick Urban [00:27:08]:
Doesn’t it have antiaging or longevity effects too?

Logan Christopher [00:27:11]:
Definitely. It’s a lot of preliminary research on that, but really, it’s it’s pretty great. It’s one of my favorites as well. So this guy was saying, like, oh, I saw some research saying that it reduces nitric oxide when if it’s supposed to help with sexual function, like, generally, you want more nitric oxide because that’s gonna help with erectile function as well as cardiovascular health. So, you know, I’m digging the research like, did this guy see something that I missed? And, of course, like, most of the research is showing that it’s increasing, but there is some research showing that it can reduce nitric oxide. Well, why would you want that? It’s because nitric oxide can be a free radical. It can, cause inflammatory effects, especially in different areas of the body. So like most things with biology, as we’ve already talked about, you want this this balance of the the right amount in the right sort of places and substantia.

Logan Christopher [00:27:57]:
And, again, this was just some preliminary research and mostly cellular studies, but showing that it can increase it as well as decrease it in different places. So this is that dual direction activity that we, very often want. It is essentially, the way to think about it is and this is different than our kind of western medical outlooks. Like, we want a drug that either makes this thing happen or stops this thing from happening essentially. Right? And in doing that, there there definitely a time and a place for this, but there’s likely to be lots of side effects and downstream effects from doing that. Instead, we take an herb which has, you know, a whole host of compounds. There’s there’s an intelligence to it. Right? And it’s working along with the intelligence of our body to kind of direct the activity in a more holistic manner, essentially, not just going for this certain effect, but really working with the body in order to, optimize what is going on.

Logan Christopher [00:28:49]:
And that’s that’s the reason that I rely on herbs and nutrients much more so than your herbs.

Nick Urban [00:28:55]:
Yeah. Even that one is interesting, the nitric oxide, because there’s the three main different forms, inos, inos, and inos. And, like, reducing I think it’s inos is beneficial usually, but then I think it’s inos and inos that you don’t want to reduce. It is definitely more complicated than just, like, it does this or that.

Logan Christopher [00:29:15]:
Right. And we have it’s like the endothelium produces nitric oxide, but the nervous system’s also doing it. And it’s like it’s yeah. If you look, like, reductionist mechanisms of biology are so complicated. I just spent time, like, reading through research. It was like a chart showing a cell and it’s like, that is just Greek to anyone reading it. Even to me, I have to, like, take some time to try to understand just a fraction of what’s going on there. But the thing is in doing that, like, the the forest is lost for the trees.

Logan Christopher [00:29:43]:
Like, it it’s great to be able to go there, but, it just distorts your perception because you you literally cannot understand all that stuff. The intelligence of the body is, like, so much grander in so many ways. So being able to step back and see in a much more holistic manner, see the bigger picture, and this is where, you know, a person observing the environment in which an herb thrives, the taste, the smell of it, the quality, the the subtle effects by just feeling it as the taste hits the body. This is where those old systems of medicine came from, and it’s very different from what we do today. Granted, they’re they’re both useful lenses. Right? So can we bring those together and get the best effects? That’s what really strive to do.

Nick Urban [00:30:25]:
Yeah. The intelligence of the plant as well, not just the human body.

Logan Christopher [00:30:29]:
Mhmm. Yeah. Absolutely.

Nick Urban [00:30:30]:
Even when you’re formulating, it’s difficult, though, because you can have the whole plant and you get certain constituents that are gonna be varied from one batch to another. If you do an a standardized extract, you’re standardizing to one compound or one set of compounds. And then, of course, you’re not gonna be knowing what you’re like, what’s going on to the other compounds. And And then also the way you extract it, if you extract them with alcohol versus water versus a mix versus high heat, low heat, it all gets very complicated. How do you decide when you’re gonna formulate products, like, the best approach so you don’t lose anything or, I guess, you lose the least? You minimize the loss and you gain the most potential benefit.

Logan Christopher [00:31:09]:
Yeah. It’s it’s definitely, I would say, an art more than a science. So with extracting, like, we do have strong traditions of all sorts of different schools as far as some best practices in how things can be done. And for most herbs, any sort of way you take it is going to work. For some herbs, certain forms are definitely better than others. So for instance, the pine pollen that we talked about, in its just pollen form. Right? So this is the pollen that comes from pine trees. You can take it raw or sometimes it’s processed in some certain ways, but it is just a super nutritious food in that way.

Logan Christopher [00:31:52]:
Just loaded with all sorts of nutrients. If you think about this is a reproductive substance of of the pine tree. So any sort of reproductive substance is gonna be quite nutritious because it’s it’s serving life. Right? So the pollens, but nuts, seeds, these sort of things, eggs, of course. These are tend to have a lot more nutrition just like gram for gram than a lot of other things out there. Now the pine pollen is unique because it has these phyto androgens. Well, not quite unique. Like, phyto androgens aren’t everywhere in nature.

Logan Christopher [00:32:21]:
Pine pollen just has a lot more of them than most places do. And this is largely an area unexplored. Like, I’m doing a deep dive on the phyto androgens right now, and we’re doing testing to, like, figure out levels. And can we do better extracts, with this? But so tympolin has this, but the thing is, like, the hormones are complex molecules that are said not to really, survive the digestive process. So in this way, we see it as more of a superfood. You’re getting all these other benefits, and it definitely has them. We expect this with alcohol, and then the the alcohol pulls out those phytoandrogens. Some of this stuff is gonna be left behind, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

Logan Christopher [00:33:01]:
But, you are gonna miss out on some of the stuff by having the alcohol water mix here. And there there’s some idea that higher alcohol is going to pull out more of the phyto androgens. That’s something that we’re testing out with a lab. So this is something we’re going to lab to, like, can we look down and narrow in and be able to to prove this out? But definitely what happens is the the phyto androgens are drawn out, then you squirt that into your mouth, hold it under your tongue. The cell wall under your tongue is super thin. So the alcohol is able to go straight into your bloodstream along with these phytoandrogens. They’re in your bloodstream now. Don’t have to go through digestion.

Logan Christopher [00:33:37]:
And then in your bloodstream, they can start to exert their effect over the body. So this is one example of one herb where the different formats do have some significant differences.

Nick Urban [00:33:48]:
Well, Logan, before before we can go on to that, will you explain what a phytoandrogen is? Because I think some people will be lost

Logan Christopher [00:33:56]:
with that word. Thank you for stopping me on that. So many people, if they’ve been in health for a while, nutrition have heard of phytoestrogens. These are plant compounds that have estrogenic effects. Most notably, soy has really high amounts of this, and there’s a good amount of debate over whether these are useful. There’s some evidence for that. And then there’s some evidence of it having negative effects. The thing is that phytoestrogens are quite common in nature.

Logan Christopher [00:34:23]:
You’ll find them in coffee, in apples. Some other higher foods in them are hops, which is, used to brew beer, flaxseeds as well. So there’s a lot of debate of of whether you should have this, but, again, there’s useful science on kinda either side of the fence. So it’s not just estrogens. There are androgens, and androgens are testosterone. DHEA is a weak androgen. DHT would be a a super strong androgen. So these plant hormones that are, having these androgenic effects, and it’s not just working in plants.

Logan Christopher [00:34:56]:
They actually have effects. They dock to androgen receptor sites within the human body as well. That’s because, you know, we all come from the same biology. We we we share stuff going on. So pine pollen is, again, not unique, but it is a rich source of these when we don’t really know a lot of other good sources. So these compounds are able to go in the human body and exert androgenic like effects. So, basically, it’s kind of like a test outside source of testosterone, not quite like that, but having these great effects. And there there’s all sorts of different ones.

Logan Christopher [00:35:26]:
There’s gibberellins, bracinosteroids, that, are having these effects. And, again, doing a deeper dive on the research to really kinda understand this and see if we can have some better effects, better extracts out there.

Nick Urban [00:35:39]:
And unlike using exogenous testosterone, this is not gonna down regulate your natural production.

Logan Christopher [00:35:45]:
Yeah. Because again, we’re we’re starting with something natural. Again, there is a point where there’s too much. So if people are taking, like, shots of pine pollen tincture per day, I think that would screw you up. But we we do on the side of caution. So, people working with these, we do recommend cycling. The the thing about your hormone system is it works through these, complex feedback cycles. So for instance, the, the pituitary gland is sending luteinizing hormone and, follicle stimulating hormone to the testes, which are producing testosterone.

Logan Christopher [00:36:17]:
The body detects those, and it’s regulating pituitary gland to stop sending those signals. If you are just injecting testosterone using cream, what pellet, whatever, then your body is like, oh, we got tons of testosterone. Shut down our own production. Right? And this is why you can see testicle shrinkage. This will, like, completely kill sperm production. Like, not a lot of people know this that they investigated testosterone as a, just, contraceptive because it will can literally shut off sperm reduction down to zero, and sometimes it doesn’t come back. So younger guys, there’s, like, guys in their thirties that are just getting on this. So, there’s definitely a a few side effects to that that you should definitely be aware of.

Logan Christopher [00:36:58]:
So, yeah, you do wanna be safe and don’t wanna overdo with these things, but a lot of people can use support. And, again, I mentioned the endocrine disrupting chemicals before. We have all sorts of xenoestrogens. Again, another common word. These are foreign chemicals that have estrogenic effects. So there’s the phytoestrogens coming from the plant kingdom, xenoestrogens. Phytoestrogens, estrogens, like, I don’t think people should be drinking, like, soy milk, eating tofu, and really it’s more this ultra processed, form of soy. If you’re having tempeh or, like, miso soup where it’s fermented, which is traditionally how they used it, I think it’s going to be fine.

Logan Christopher [00:37:34]:
I think it’s actually beneficial to have some phytoestrogens because it’s helping to modulate our our system. Like, the the Hoshu Wu here has some for sure, but smaller amounts than tofu for sure. So phytoestrogens, like, I’m okay with those overall. They can have some beneficial effects. Xeroestrogens, we wanna cut down, eliminate these as much as possible. So, you know, getting rid of plastics, having filters on our shower, like, there’s a whole bunch of different steps in doing this. But the thing is that having these plant compounds, both phytoestrogens and phyto androgens, these are helping our our body to kinda deal with these. Another of the effect of pine pollen is it helps to, improve glutathione in the body.

Logan Christopher [00:38:14]:
Glutathione is the body’s master antioxidant, has to process a lot of the chemicals that we’re constantly assaulted with every day. So this is one of the other routes that, pine pollen and some of the other herbs as well are going to help with.

Nick Urban [00:38:27]:
Nice. I had no idea that effect of pine pollen. But, Logan, also about the hormone effects and and the phytoandrogens, testosterone isn’t just important for men. Women have a lot more testosterone than they do estrogen as far as I’m aware.

Logan Christopher [00:38:42]:
They they don’t have more. And I I used to say that because I quoted a book from a doctor. So, women have, usually it’s like one fifteenth as much testosterone as men. They still have more testosterone and estrogen, but, it is a even though they have less amount, the way I like to say is that it is every bit as important for a woman as it is for men and that a lot of women actually have low testosterone and could really help to support that. Now it’s not every woman. There are definitely some that have too high of testosterone and that that’s most notably gonna be seen in cases of PCOS. That’s a case of hyperandrogenism in women. But a lot of women are going to have lower levels of testosterone.

Logan Christopher [00:39:29]:
And part of that, again, is these environmental, chemicals that we’re exposed to. Phthalates, for example, are anti androgenic. So phthalates are found in many plastics. If you smell an air freshener or anything scented, so lotions, soaps, all kinds of skincare products, shampoos. If it says parfum fragrance on the back, chances are it’s a phthalate and and it’s killing your testosterone. Again, important for both men and women and not just testosterone can have effects on DHEA and other stuff as well. So, again, if we wanna eliminate these different things, as much as possible and help support it. So for women, like, testosterone is the most notable thing is, sexual function and libido.

Logan Christopher [00:40:11]:
Like, that’s what it’s most well known for, but it’s gonna help with energy levels, with mood support, with cognition, helps with muscle mass and bone mass. Not like you’re not gonna take Pineapple and look like a bodybuilder. You’re gonna maybe not have osteoporosis when you’re 80 years old. Right? These these are some of the things you can, work with in that way. So definitely, this is a, a hormone worth getting your levels checked with if you’re doing any sort of other hormone panels. A lot of things that estrogen is considered useful for like bone health. Testosterone is much more so. And this is one of the reason that women have a lot more issues with bone health than men, is testosterone.

Logan Christopher [00:40:50]:
That’s like one of the main, things there. And, while I’m talking about, like, thyroid function, that’s another area where these endocrine disrupting chemicals are gonna disrupt thyroid function. And I I believe it’s one of the reasons that women have more thyroid issues than men do. Although, both sexes have a lot of this. We have a epidemic of hypothyroid, oftentimes subclinical, but women use a lot more products, which absorbs into the skin, gets into their bloodstream, and, unfortunately, is carrying a lot of these endocrine disrupting chemicals.

Nick Urban [00:41:21]:
Mhmm. Yeah. Would consuming phytoandrogen disrupt the or inhibit the effects of the xenoestrogens or xeno I guess there’s not really xenoandrogens. It’s

Logan Christopher [00:41:33]:
The phthalates are anti antiandrogenic. There are xenoandrogens that’s not well known, and I wouldn’t mess with that. It’s like, oh, I can get these from chemicals out there. But I have seen there there is some, there’s just not much research on that topic, even just the anti androgenic effects. Mostly like phthalates and then a lot of UV filters, so sunscreens. Tons of those are anti androgenic as well. One of the pesticides they were looking at, I believe was a fungicide. It had as strong of anti androgenic effect for an anti androgen they use to, like, treat prostate cancer with.

Logan Christopher [00:42:09]:
Yeah. Yeah. Probably not the same amount in, like, who knows which crops that one is sprayed on. Right? So that that’s quite tricky, but I went off on a tangent. What was your question again?

Nick Urban [00:42:22]:
I was asking if Yes. Using a phyto androgen could help displace or inhibit or block the effects of the xenoestrogens, the, I guess, anti androgens and stuff like that.

Logan Christopher [00:42:34]:
Yes. I absolutely believe that this is happening. The I I would say this is hypothesis ground. There isn’t quite research showing this, but in general so, you have these chemicals coming in, xenoestrogen. It’s gonna dock to a receptor site in a cell and exert its effects in in some way. If we have our own internal, hormones or these phyto hormones coming in, then it may be able to kick that off. And the the body, you know, hasn’t really processed these before. If it has negative effects, the body know it’s it has negative effects.

Logan Christopher [00:43:06]:
In many cases, these get shuttled off to fat cells because that’s kind of like the safe storage place. It’s it’s mostly inert in there. Plus a lot of them are, fat soluble, so they love fat and they’ll go into that. And this is one of the reasons that people oftentimes have difficulties with weight loss is, okay, you start losing weight. So your fat cells start shrinking or, your body’s getting rid of them. The toxins that are stored there get released into the bloodstream. So you feel like crap. You get lower energy.

Logan Christopher [00:43:34]:
That’s gonna kick in the cravings and there you go. Right? So this is one of the reasons that one’s slower weight loss is gonna be much more sustainable because there’s also the the rubber band effect. But really upgrading your detoxification systems while you’re doing this can make it much easier to do so. So yeah. Absolutely. I believe that, again, like, humanity grew with plants and ecology around us. Right? We we grew together. So this stuff is going to be able there to support us.

Logan Christopher [00:44:02]:
And that’s not to say that we couldn’t go imbalanced with it. But in general, this is, can be a useful ally in what we’re going for.

Nick Urban [00:44:09]:
Okay. So we’ve got the phyto androgen benefits. We’ve got the glutathione upregulation. Anything else notable about pine pollen?

Logan Christopher [00:44:18]:
Yeah. I mean, again, I said it was super nutritious, so it has all kinds of vitamins, minerals. It’s more than a complete protein, has all the different amino acids in there, tons of antioxidants that that helps support super peroxide dismutase as well. Some MSM, resveratrol is in there. So, yeah. So it is helping to support the immune system, helps to support recovery. People oftentimes will notice that they bounce back better from the workout. So this is likely partly in effect from the the phyto androgens, but maybe some of the other stuff as well.

Logan Christopher [00:44:56]:
Recovery wise, it also people, that that are drinking find that they’re less hungover when taking this, and that may have to do with the the glutathione. Right? Because that’s gonna be used in processing alcohol as well and really helping the just kinda turn on the the liver, in doing that. So the immunity, antiaging, longevity, it’s really gonna have kind of a a wide range of effects across the different systems.

Nick Urban [00:45:23]:
Very cool. Yeah. I’ve been using it pre workout. Is that a good time to use it?

Logan Christopher [00:45:27]:
Yeah. Generally, with the pine pollen, we recommend, like, morning and afternoon. So you’re kinda, like, supporting the natural wave of testosterone. So, but before or after a workout would also be a great time.

Nick Urban [00:45:40]:
Something else I’d be remiss not to ask you about is a substance that I know you’re a fan of because you offer it, but that is Shilajit. Why are you a fan of Shilajit?

Logan Christopher [00:45:50]:
The first time I’ve heard of its nicknames, the destroyer of weakness and the conqueror of mountains, I was like, sold. For me, it really was like Okay. Yeah. I’m a strong man. Right? So something that destroys weakness, I gotta try that. Right? Then of course, I I researched a bit more on it. And so this is one of the top, substances out of Ayurveda. It’s it’s really interesting because it is essentially a mineral pitch.

Logan Christopher [00:46:15]:
It is this stuff that oozes out of the Himalayan Mountains, which is just kind of odd when you think about it. Right? And it’s it’s often very minimally processed. You can get it in different forms as a powder or a, a resin, which are sometimes collected in, different areas, different elevations, and go through a little bit of a different processing. This stuff is quite amazing. I I kinda consider it like a naturally alchemical, substance. They they say it’s dead plant matter from, like, long ago that is now becoming this, excretion of the mountains itself. And so that would that would put it somewhere between the plant kingdom and the mineral kingdom. Just alchemically for a moment, the the minerals are considered the the strongest medicine, but humans are far removed from them.

Logan Christopher [00:47:07]:
We can’t just consume minerals and get any sort of benefit. The practice of alchemy was not really about turning lead into gold. That’s was sort of like one offshoot of it, but was much more so about making medicine. And really how do you take something that is a mineral, open it up in a certain way that it can be consumable and beneficial to humans, especially some of the ones that are toxic normally. How can you transform them to something that is beneficial? So the so if Shilajit is borderline between the plant kingdom and mineral kingdom in a accessible form to humans, that means it’s some magical stuff. And just by the fact that, like, this is rare stuff coming up from the Himalayan Mountains, if you’re getting good quality stuff, unfortunately, because it’s powerful, there’s a lot of crap out there. But, this this is great stuff. So it is super rich in trace minerals as you might imagine being a mineral pitch.

Logan Christopher [00:47:59]:
It is very rich in fulvic and humic acids, which are something that used to be in kind of all of our food supply. But with soil depletion, we don’t really get much of these more. These are large molecules that really are kinda like transporters. They help to deliver nutrients to cells and also to shuttle waste out. So anything you take with Shilajit, it tends to potentiate the effects. It makes it stronger, because it it has these compounds that can basically drive things into your cells. But it’s also great at detoxifying. So it can pull heavy metals.

Logan Christopher [00:48:31]:
It can pull some of these xenobiotics, endocrine disrupting chemicals out of the body as well. So these these are just some of the benefits to it. It’s helpful to our ATP system, so generation of energy. Many people notice metabolism benefits. So, it can, like, curb hunger and just kinda give them sustainable energy while not necessarily consuming calories. So that yeah. Those are just some of the benefits of this amazing, amazing substance.

Nick Urban [00:48:57]:
Yeah. The minerals and trace minerals are also in their ionic forms so that your body has an easier time using them versus your average mineral product you get in the capsule. It’s usually a chelate of some kind. Then, like, you’re gonna get greater absorption and assimilation, not just absorption, but assimilation of the minerals in Trilogy as well.

Logan Christopher [00:49:17]:
Yep. Absolutely.

Nick Urban [00:49:18]:
And then, also, I’m surprised you didn’t mention anything about the impact on hormones.

Logan Christopher [00:49:21]:
Yeah. So it honestly, it touches on every system in the body. It has a nickname of Indian Viagra. And I was talking to the iuretic doctor that’s our our supplier of this stuff, and he’s like, well, it it has it does not work by the same mechanisms by which Viagra works at. And that’s a p d u five inhibitor if you want that for any goat weed, has those effects with its Ikarin compound, tongkat ali, which I mentioned earlier, has a bit more minor, but that’s one of its effects as well. What Shilajit is doing is it is just kinda restoring the body to optimal health, helping to support everything. And if you’re in good health, like, you’re not gonna need biogas. So that’s that’s how it works in that way.

Logan Christopher [00:50:01]:
And it’s also doing that similar sort of thing for testosterone and the different hormones as well. You know, it has some nootropic benefits. Like, literally, it will touch on every system in the body. So, yeah, you’re you’re a big fan of it for a reason.

Nick Urban [00:50:13]:
Yeah. I also was looking into the research, and there’s a substance called carbon sixty that’s getting a lot of popularity in the longevity world. And there’s a paper that suggests that Shilajit may have some content of, like, natural c sixty in it.

Logan Christopher [00:50:28]:
Yeah. That that that was something that I found that I found quite interesting because, yeah, I’d seen some of the stuff around a c sixty sixty and it, you know, it was really preliminary research, but showing some pretty cool, benefits to doing that. And then that came across as I was studying Shilajit one day that it had that compound naturally in there. Because I’m always looking. It’s like, okay. If we have this cool molecule, that that’s cool and all, but, like, is this found in nature? And if it is, can we go with that that natural supplement as well? So there there’s some great supplements out there that are rich in fulvic acid that can definitely be worthwhile. But, again, like to go for a natural source when possible. So shilja is a a great thing for that as well as so much else.

Nick Urban [00:51:07]:
Yeah. And you said it can help enhance the absorption of other things that you take alongside it. But, also, I think there’s a strong case to be made for the food that you consume since it’s more it’s less dense in nutrients now than it used to be because of the soil and so many other reasons that perhaps you’re gonna get greater absorption of the actual nutrients in the food, giving you, like, better bang for your buck, I guess, nutritionally.

Logan Christopher [00:51:29]:
Yeah. That I mean, that’s something we don’t know. It’s, like, all these different elements out there, like, yttrium and all these things as, like, do we need, like, just tiny bits of amount in this, and what what kind of disease could that cause by having a lack of that thing that we’re, like, don’t even pay attention to? I’m very curious about these things. So definitely getting all these different trace minerals and even very, very minute amounts may be something that definitely supports our health.

Nick Urban [00:51:57]:
So we’ve touched on a number of different ingredients and substances so far. What are, like, the ones in they’re integral in your own routine?

Logan Christopher [00:52:06]:
So the way that I take herbs is basically foundational stuff then intuitive taking on top of it or random. So I take I typically have a cup of coffee each day and in that I mix, ho shiwu, chaga mushroom and usually maca. And for me the the ho shiwu and the chaga are kind of the essentials. Again, I already mentioned ho shiwu. Chaga is another one of the, medicinal mushrooms out there often called the the king of mushrooms. I I kinda like it even better than, reishi and its effects, and that is it it’s really good at tons of antioxidants. Like, it protects the DNA. It’s not something that’s super, like, noticeable, but how it supports the immune system, it just seems to have an affinity for me and it also tastes great with coffee.

Logan Christopher [00:53:04]:
So it it kinda mixes in there, pretty well. So those two are essential. I often throw maca in there. Maca is not a, like, one I feel all that much, but I do enjoy the flavor of it. So it’s a little bit more for the flavor than actually affects there. Though that can be great for, like, energy and libido as well. So those are some of the herbs that I’m taking each day, and that’s just because I have that, like, kinda stacked as a habit.

Nick Urban [00:53:27]:
Wait. For the the Hoshu Wu, that I have as capsules. You mentioned earlier that you just took it before this podcast in a tincture form. How do you decide the way you’re gonna use it, or how do you is it based on effects or something else?

Logan Christopher [00:53:40]:
So with the he shu Wu, we started out with just a powder, and that’s pretty good stuff. There is some maltodextrin in there, which, is not the best. It is an ultra processed ingredient, even if we’re getting it from non GMO sources. The thing is with a lot of the Chinese herbs, they use spray dryers, which is how do you turn a liquid into a powder. And it is oftentimes through using maltodextrin. So some of our Chinese, products use this, and I I would love to get away from it, but we haven’t quite found out how to do that yet. With that, we have been doing the r and d process with a a freeze dryer. So I have a freeze dried Hoshuwu extract that I’m working with that I’m personally using for my coffee at this point.

Logan Christopher [00:54:20]:
And that’s I just mix a spoonful of this powder into the coffee, just kinda stir it in, and it mostly dissolves pretty well. Especially the freeze dried stuff dissolves even better than any of these, other extracts out there. So that is what I I’ve been using that for, many years. Then a few years back, started making this tincture. Just got some of the, prepared roots of Ho Chi Wu. And, honestly, like, this is pagerically prepared. So using some alchemical stuffs, it’s a favorite Hoshuwu tincture, I’ve ever taken until I started r d in this other process, and I kinda made something to like even more. But this is one that we sell right now.

Logan Christopher [00:54:56]:
And we also just, took our our powder that we have available and put that in capsules. So, yeah. With that so I I do feel like the tincture not having maltodextrin is a bit higher quality and just like the taste and kinda quality of it and the spagyric preparation. So I do feel that is a bit above the powder and the capsules, but those are still pretty good. Right?

Nick Urban [00:55:19]:
Will you will you break down what spagyric preparation is? Because that’s like a classic herbalist thing. And also, I learned in herbalism that, like, generally, powders tend to have weaker effects than spagyrics and extracts. Is that true?

Logan Christopher [00:55:31]:
It depends on the herb, kinda depends on the person, depends what you’re going for. The way I see it is oftentimes not always with a powder, you’re gonna have just more chemical constituents. You just kinda have a bigger dose oftentimes. Whereas a tincture, like you’re taking a milliliter of liquid, like there’s not all that much in there. But to me, the the tinctures are a bit more energetic in action. Yes. It enters into your bloodstream. Yes.

Logan Christopher [00:55:59]:
The chemicals can directly get into your bloodstream, not have to go through digestion. So that is a big benefit. But for me, I I kind of just feel it more in the energetic body than I do just taking capsules for instance. Right? It’s like, I don’t even know what these ate. My body has no clue, and they’re in my, stomach dissolving ten minutes later or something. Right?

Nick Urban [00:56:19]:
Yeah. I I forget about that. There’s actually, like, very good reason to make sure, like, you taste whatever it is because then your body is prepared for whatever it is that’s coming.

Logan Christopher [00:56:27]:
So you look at Chinese medicine, Ayurvedic medicine, western herbalism, the taste clued you into the effects of the body. And not just that these tastes were paired with these effects, but it it clues the body into what the thing the the taste is the first part of our digestion. So if we’re just bypassing that with capsules and look. I take capsules too. Right? It’s, it’s understandable, for convenience and all that. But yes, ideally you do want to take the, taste the herbs. So one of the things you can do with capsules is you take your bottle to open one capsule and sprinkle it inside. So you get that dust, close it, shake it up.

Logan Christopher [00:57:04]:
Then your capsules, you’ll have a little bit of that taste. So at least you’re just getting a hint of it with while still having the convenience of the capsule. So this, this is an approach you can use to get that. And that being said, like some of the herbs are very harsh tasting like our Thor’s hammer formula for instance. Like, even I don’t like to taste that one in Evernote. But others like the Ho Chi Wu, I don’t mind the powder taste of that at all. So that that’s a little bit on that. You were asking about this spagyric tinctures.

Logan Christopher [00:57:33]:
So spagyrics is a word that essentially it’s a practice of, making, using alchemy, alchemical methods for making medicines. And again, I’m not a doctor. I can’t make medicines. I’m just using this in the old school terms here. So a normal tincture, you’re going to soak your your herbs in a combination of alcohol and water, and then you’re going to let that sit for a while, macerate, and then press it off and boom, you have your tincture. In the alchemical philosophy, this tincture would then be, the philosophical principles of the mercury and the sulfur, but then you just take what’s left of the herb and you throw that away. You don’t wanna do that in alchemy because you’re throwing away the salt principle, which is the body principle. So this this, the leftover herbs will then get burned down, ground and burned.

Logan Christopher [00:58:25]:
This this process is labor intensive and takes some time, but you you get it until it’s burnt down to a grayish powder. You then leach the, soluble minerals out of this from the insoluble minerals with distilled water. Filter that off and then evaporate it down till you get crystals and it will literally form crystals depending on the herb crystals of different shape. So you see some of, like, the, platonic solids in different lines. It’s really cool to watch sometimes. Sometimes they’ll, like, crawl up the the the vessels, like, all kinds of fun stuff. And these crystals then get ground up and added back into the tincture. So you’re adding the the body back into the tincture.

Logan Christopher [00:59:03]:
This makes a what is known as a spagyric tincture. And it’s literally the easiest of all the alchemical preparations. They get far more advanced after this. Right? Lots more separation. You work with all kinds of other stuff. But in this spagyric tincture, you’ve added the body back in. So it now knows how to work with your body better. Standard dosing with spagyrics is like half that or they’re just stronger overall.

Logan Christopher [00:59:25]:
There are some cool things. Like, I looked into the sort of biochemistry of what’s being involved, and there may be. It still needs to be much more research on this, but liposono liposomal, nanoparticles formed out of doing this because, the with the the water, it’s it’s doing a, soap formation, but that can can generate that. Then there is the, saponification of compounds. So compounds that were this, you have what’s mostly potassium carbonate being added back in, along with some other stuff. And it is causing chemical reactions within the tincture. So different things are occurring. So what is in a spagyric tincture and what is in a normal tincture is actually gonna be slightly different as well.

Logan Christopher [01:00:05]:
And with some of these compounds, both the different things, essentially, what they’re gonna be do be doing is having more bioavailability and likely longer half lives within the body so they’re able to exert their effects longer as well. So in a nutshell, that is a sphygienic tincture versus a regular tincture.

Nick Urban [01:00:22]:
Very cool. And then also with your Heshe Wu, I forget how you pronounce it. Heshe Wu. Heshew Wu. I noticed when I took it the opposite effect of you. You said it was calming to you. For me, it was energizing and more stimulating. Is does it have that, dual action that the other one said?

Logan Christopher [01:00:38]:
It’s definitely possible, and everyone’s a little bit different. So, for me, it’s just like very suddenly calming, but, it’s not gonna, like, put me to sleep or anything like that. So it’s gonna help with good energy. But, yeah, just for you, you may notice, more stimulating effect from it. And that’s a that’s a thing with herbs. You just gotta play with them and see what works for you and what happens to one person does not necessarily happen to the next. A good example of that is valerian root. Valerian root is one of the more well known sleep herbs.

Logan Christopher [01:01:09]:
Except for about three percent of people, it is super stimulating too. So people take it for sleep and they’re up all night instead. And why this is exactly? I mean, I’m sure there’s some sort of genetic difference or, certain pathways in the body, but, yeah, that’s just, some of the paradoxical effects of herbs out

Nick Urban [01:01:31]:
there. Yeah. So were those all the herbs in your foundational stack or are there anything else?

Logan Christopher [01:01:36]:
Yeah. So, another thing that I do so I am taking some capsules and basically I’ll rotate over time what I’m taking. So I have a, like, this is a AM PM, but I only I use it as a two week thing. And, I’ll put my different capsules in there. So I’m I’m using nutrients like magnesium, zinc, vitamin d, a good quality food based multivitamin, but I’ll take, like, okay. These two weeks, I’m gonna take elk antler. These two weeks, I’m gonna take sustanche. So that is kind of a a foundational point as well.

Logan Christopher [01:02:09]:
I love this, how we’re going on so many tangents and now we get back to this one here. On top of that, I’m mostly a tincture person. So I have just tinctures all over my desk. You can see a bunch back there. I have more upstairs. I have a whole lab over there in the apothecary. So, yeah, I got a lot of tinctures, and tinctures are my preferred way of taking herbs. So I can just look the once I keep at my desk, it’s like, okay.

Logan Christopher [01:02:33]:
What do I want right now? So, again, before the podcast, I was like, I’m gonna take some Ho Chi Wu and that Pandora’s piece, earlier in today. I’ll look around what something else and take it. So I I I’m feeling in that this can be seen as I’m just randomly taking herbs, but really I’m tuning into my body. I’m tuning into what I’m going to be doing in the next amount of time. And then just subtly tweaking, my my feeling state through the use of the herbs and what is going on in order to be able to support me in different ways. So, yeah, if that’s like I I need energy right in the morning or I’m about to go work out, I often take our Hercules workout formula, before working out. That is a combination of some of the herbs we talked about, the ant, cordyceps, rhodiola, but also, marl root, sustanche, and shilajit. So we talked about almost all of those.

Logan Christopher [01:03:22]:
And that’s a great combination for work capacity, stress response, mental focus even. So that’s one that I take pregative to regular too because I’m also working out regularly. So, yeah, that’s my long answer to your question of, how do I take herbs? And, I do see herbs as a good way to kind of practice intuition and practice tuning into subtle effects. A lot of people could use more help in this. Right? And of course, herbs aren’t the only way to do so, but like, can you notice the effects of an herb that has on me? Like, do you need to get hit over the head with a sledgehammer by taking psilocybin? Or can you notice something that, like rhodiola and its effects on your cognition? Right? This can be a way to just kinda narrow down our our not our capacity, but our sensitivity to different things.

Nick Urban [01:04:14]:
What’s cool about that too is after doing that enough times, feeling what you feeling what your body’s gravitating towards, you get the the feedback. Like, okay. I thought I wanted energy. I took this, and, actually, I went down a notch. Perhaps next time, I won’t do that. Like, I’ll have that intuitive sense that I should try something else. And, eventually, you figure out how to match your state or your desired state with a particular herb. And then once you have that dialed, of course, you can expand that to other areas of life as well.

Logan Christopher [01:04:41]:
Yeah. And it it can be fun working with the herbs because it here, it can be good to push the boundaries. Most of the herbs that we’re working with and talking about here are quite safe, right, even in large doses. But an example was in some of my herbalism training, we were, focusing on herbs that were, like, sedatives and hypnotics, herbs that are gonna help with sleep. So as we’re talking about the herbs, we’re passing around the class, like, taking a whole bunch of them. And guess what the effect was that night?

Nick Urban [01:05:09]:
You guys didn’t pass out and No.

Logan Christopher [01:05:11]:
We were, like, wired. Right? It’s just, like, too much of this stuff kinda can have the the opposite effect. Right? So, yeah, playing with the dosages, playing with it is, like, you can take a big dose and see what the effect is. You can take a micro dose and see what the effect is. And, the same or maybe very different with those different things.

Nick Urban [01:05:30]:
Yeah. It’s so interesting in the world. They’re, like, biphasic or even triphasic dosing where it’s, like, low dose, stimulating, high dose, or medium dose, sedating, super high dose, stimulating again.

Logan Christopher [01:05:40]:
Yeah. With the the hormone stuff, like, a a low dose hasn’t affect you. You have too much of, like, hormones going on in it, can not have an effect. So it’s very interesting how that plays out too.

Nick Urban [01:05:51]:
Yeah. Logan, if people want to get started, is there one particular herb or product you find that people tend to do the best with overall?

Logan Christopher [01:06:00]:
Yeah. I’ll I’ll mention two formulas, that have some of the many herbs that we’ve talked about today. So for men, our phoenix formula is a great one to start. This is really what I was talking about with that, like, quick start before. So this has the pine pollen, the ant, po shu woo, and shilajit. So this was meant to, like, just rejuvenate you from a deep level inside out. And with that, you’re gonna feel, like, great energy. Your hormones are definitely being optimized.

Logan Christopher [01:06:28]:
It has a, antiaging and a a wide range of benefits. So that has been a really popular one. We have that in capsules and a a powder. Can be great for women as well, but for women, our Athena formula is a great place to start. This is a blend of dong plai and shadavari, which are the number one herbs in Chinese medicine and Ayurvedic medicines. Like, why deal with anything else? Kinda start with those two and see what the effects are. It has some of the pine pollen, so you are getting that phytoandrogen support along with the phytoestrogens from the Shatovari. Then it’s rounded out with, four berries, schizandra, goji, longan, and seabuckthorn, that make the formula taste a bit better.

Logan Christopher [01:07:11]:
In the powdered version, we have the capsules as well. But also just this there isn’t a system in the body that this isn’t touching on. So although there is a focus around, like, hormone health, it really does hit on everything. So that is just a good, like, give this a try, see what it does for you, place to start for women.

Nick Urban [01:07:30]:
Awesome. And I don’t think we’ve even mentioned the name of your company yet. So if people want to connect with you to try some of your products, how do they go about that?

Logan Christopher [01:07:37]:
Lostempireherbs.com is the website. And, yeah, the wealth of information on there from these herbs and then articles on all sorts of different subjects of health. So definitely check it out and see what we have going on there.

Nick Urban [01:07:51]:
Awesome. And you generously agreed to give my audience a 20% discount with the code urban. Thank you for that. And I’m excited to hear, for any of you guys listening in, what your experiences are with these different herbs and products that contain multiple herbs inside them.

Logan Christopher [01:08:06]:
Yeah. I’ll just say one of the things we have is a 365 date back guarantee. So we really our our business policy is we want you to have positive effects that you can feel from the herbs. And if you don’t, you don’t have to pay. You there are some restrictions on this because people have, like, screwed us over, but you don’t have to send anything back if it’s, like, one, herb or a couple different ones. You can just try it out. And we have customers, like, try a bunch of herbs. Like, oh, these ones didn’t work for me.

Logan Christopher [01:08:33]:
Let me exchange it for other things. So that refund is really to put the risk on us, not on you so you can just try this stuff out and see how it works for you.

Nick Urban [01:08:41]:
Beautiful. We will start to wind this one down. If If there was a burning of the books and all herbalism knowledge is lost, but you get to save the works of three teachers, perhaps not just herbalism, but strong men as well, are there any resources that you think deserve to be saved?

Logan Christopher [01:09:00]:
Yeah. That’s a tough question. I I love books, so it’s hard to hard to whittle it down from the the many options available. What comes to mind is as far as the alchemy, and I think alchemy is going through a resurgence. It is, again, much more than turning lead into gold. There’s so much there. And, I think, you know, modern day science will be able to prove it out in the future. But the just the works of Paracelsus, who’s been called the the father of modern medicine, like, we get ideas like the, the difference between medicine and poison is the dose comes from him.

Logan Christopher [01:09:42]:
He’s really responsible for so much, and that includes in the chemical field. So his works would be definitely worth, keeping. As far as the I mean, one of the biggest books and its effects on me in multiple different ways was the spiritual journey of Joseph l Greenstein, which is a biography of the mighty Adam who was a a strong man. He was literally a sickly child that was supposed to die, told so by the doctors, ran away to join a circus, got tutored under a wrestler, became very healthy, very vibrant, very strong, went to America, ended up being a strong man in vaudeville shows and, like, stopped planes from taking off that that were attached to his hair, bit through nails, bent all kinds of steel bars while being a a small guy. And that book for me, just for what a reason, like, connected in a deep way. And he also had a passion for herbs and natural living. Like, every time I go back to the book, he’s like, oh, I was inspired by that and I didn’t even realize it. So his work was just such a inspiration to me in the the strong men stuff as well as so much more.

Logan Christopher [01:10:54]:
And we didn’t even touch on all the fun strong men stuff that’s out there as well. So those are the two that are coming to mind right now.

Nick Urban [01:11:02]:
Okay. Great. And we have, if you’re open to it, another podcast that we can record on your TBI that you sustained and how you bounce back from that, some of the Strongman stuff, and some of the other substances that you alluded to in this episode that we didn’t get to touch on.

Logan Christopher [01:11:18]:
Alright. Yeah. Sounds great.

Nick Urban [01:11:20]:
Awesome. Well, Logan, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. I had a blast learning about you, your background, and a lot of the cool herbs and stuff that you guys are working on. Yeah.

Logan Christopher [01:11:30]:
Great conversation.

Nick Urban [01:11:31]:
Thanks for tuning in to High Performance Longevity. If you got value today, the best way to support the show is to leave a review or share it with someone who’s ready to upgrade their health span. You can find all the episodes, show notes, and resources mentioned at outlier.com. Until next time, stay energized, stay bio harmonized, and be an outlier.